Oil Catch Can?

[Deleted member 939]

Anyone have a oil catch can installed on there bike? Since the R18 is "manifold injected" and from what I have read these 1800s are basically
a GDI(Gasoline Direct Injection) engine.Which means no wet fuel (to clean off the valves)comes in contact with the valves only oil blow by.So the valves will need to be professionally cleaned from time to time.Otherwise,the valves will get a build up of burned,caked on oil.The Chevy LT1 is direct injection and I installed a ADD W1 catch can.There are smaller ones on Amazon.Though I have not researched it as I am out riding,LOL!

Lastly,I posted this after reading the canister delete post on the forum.This got me thinking about the injection system.

https://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/story/bikes/bmw-r-18-engine-details-released/

 

[Calboy]

Who cares about the build up and the professional clean up job from time to time?
I assume you still have manufacturer's warranty left. I purchased an extended warranty the same day i got my 2021 FE, so I'm good to go for seven years. No deductible.
If the design is flawed it's not on me. Did the sales person mention anything about problems with the final drive leaking? Or the left cylinder smoking?
That's the problem with buying the first generation of almost anything mechanical in nature. I don't sweat it for a second, and I only do what's in a way required of me, maintenance wise, as an owner.
Nothing more, not even asking myself silly questions about the injection system.
Waste of time...

 

[TodkaVonic]

Interesting idea. I installed one in my Vantage and, yeah, there was oil in there a couple thousand miles later. I don't know if that would've created a problem or if I was essentially fixing a non-issue. Likely the latter. But still fun to tinker. That one was plug-and-play. I'd be interested to know where you'd put it in the R18 and what additional research you've done to conclude that it may be beneficial.

 

[Deleted member 939]

Interesting idea. I installed one in my Vantage and, yeah, there was oil in there a couple thousand miles later. I don't know if that would've created a problem or if I was essentially fixing a non-issue. Likely the latter. But still fun to tinker. That one was plug-and-play. I'd be interested to know where you'd put it in the R18 and what additional research you've done to conclude that it may be beneficial.

Hey TV.
Well,I have been looking to install a oil catch can on my Indian Springfield 111/stg2.The round air cleaner allows extra noise from the breather and also has a bit of oil blow-by.The open round catches air from riding and the can would fix that.With the stock oem bedpan air filter,any oil blow by is trapped.
I knew the R18 was not port injected and when I saw your comment on the canister removal it brought the idea back.I am not sure where the engine crankcase vent is routed on the R18.Probably need to take off the engine side panels and take a look.
There are machines that clean the valves on GDI auto engines.Not sure if it would work on R18s.I have another 16,000 miles to figure it out.
Then the warranty will end,lol!
Lately,I have not been riding the C that much since we rode to Mt St Helens and back .I have been putting miles on the 2022 Indian.It is really a joy to ride.
May I ask,where did you install the Oil catch can on your Vintage?
If I remember,do you have a sidecar rig as well?
Thx,TK

 

[TodkaVonic]

Hey TV.
Well,I have been looking to install a oil catch can on my Indian Springfield 111/stg2.The round air cleaner allows extra noise from the breather and also has a bit of oil blow-by.The open round catches air from riding and the can would fix that.With the stock oem bedpan air filter,any oil blow by is trapped.
I knew the R18 was not port injected and when I saw your comment on the canister removal it brought the idea back.I am not sure where the engine crankcase vent is routed on the R18.Probably need to take off the engine side panels and take a look.
There are machines that clean the valves on GDI auto engines.Not sure if it would work on R18s.I have another 16,000 miles to figure it out.
Then the warranty will end,lol!
Lately,I have not been riding the C that much since we rode to Mt St Helens and back .I have been putting miles on the 2022 Indian.It is really a joy to ride.
May I ask,where did you install the Oil catch can on your Vintage?
If I remember,do you have a sidecar rig as well?
Thx,TK

Hi TK!
I'm jealous of your recent rides but happy you're out there! I got the can for the Vantage here https://www.redpants.lol/. I don't recall the installation steps except that it literally plugged in without mods. OEM connectors and everything, I sold the car a few years ago. It's a sore topic.

No, no sidecar for me. Had one once. Riding with it wasn't my cup o' tea and nobody, not even my dog (pictured), would ride with me. Jesus, another sore topic.

 

[Deleted member 939]

Hi TK!
I'm jealous of your recent rides but happy you're out there! I got the can for the Vantage here https://www.redpants.lol/. I don't recall the installation steps except that it literally plugged in without mods. OEM connectors and everything, I sold the car a few years ago. It's a sore topic.

No, no sidecar for me. Had one once. Riding with it wasn't my cup o' tea and nobody, not even my dog (pictured), would ride with me. Jesus, another sore topic.

Oh Vantage, ,Sorry,My mistake.

 

[Adrian R]

Is this the same as a crankcase breather? I noted how the R18 didn't seem to have one.

 

[Deleted member 939]

Is this the same as a crankcase breather? I noted how the R18 didn't seem to have one.

Not sure,I was not looking for anything at the time.Someone may chime in if they know.
Folks that don't put in a bunch of miles on their bikes won't have to worry for now.
I am sure it won't be a issue inside the warranty period.

 

[Ulrich]

Hi R18C ... a question (a bit side tracked ... sorry) you said " ... Since the R18 is "manifold injected" ... " when I did my valves it looked like the injector reaches right into the valve cavity ... is that still considered 'manifold injected' even though it is right into the head?

 

[Deleted member 939]

Hi R18C ... a question (a bit side tracked ... sorry) you said " ... Since the R18 is "manifold injected" ... " when I did my valves it looked like the injector reaches right into the valve cavity ... is that still considered 'manifold injected' even though it is right into the head?

Hey Bro,
Good question. I can't answer that one.I do know that Throttle body,port injection does spray into the valve from a manifold thereby cleaning the valve.If what you say and the spray is before the valve,THATS GREAT NEWS.Thank you Sir!
I probably should have done more research before I opened my pie hole,lol.Being retired,I guess I am putting off(today) anything I can do
tomorrow.I appreciate your input and participation on the forum.Discussion is good and I hope I am wrong and these engines are not GDI's
I would love to have a manual for these bikes.Hell,I kinda feel bad for the dealers as they are in the dark more the I am.Almost every question I have asked,they refer to one another or talk about a different model.Then they have to go to a reference of some sort.
I did have the R18C out a bit today.Even in Roll mode she really scoots.

 

[Ulrich]

No worries ... and I actually withdraw my statement .. I just realized, what I thought to be the injector turns out it is only on one head not both! that means it can't be the injector !... duhh I must have had a senile moment ...
And I whole heartedly agree, there needs to be a shop manual! Most of what I do on this bike bases on observations and info drawn from my other or previous bikes.
And I further agree that discussions/exchange of opinions are great ... actually it's the best! ... even when they differ from mine and especially when I find out that my thoughts were actually off (happens a lot ) .. so I stand corrected and you are probably much closer to the actual setup than I was.
I wished I could ride at the moment .. but it is in the mid 20's in the morning when I have o get to work ... and I refused to run the risk of throwing her down! She is too pretty for that
Now all I have left is a look for this subject is a pic I found of a look inside our engines without a teardown
Ride safe!

 

[Deleted member 939]

No worries ... and I actually withdraw my statement .. I just realized, what I thought to be the injector turns out it is only on one head not both! that means it can't be the injector !... duhh I must have had a senile moment ...
And I whole heartedly agree, there needs to be a shop manual! Most of what I do on this bike bases on observations and info drawn from my other or previous bikes.
And I further agree that discussions/exchange of opinions are great ... actually it's the best! ... even when they differ from mine and especially when I find out that my thoughts were actually off (happens a lot ) .. so I stand corrected and you are probably much closer to the actual setup than I was.
I wished I could ride at the moment .. but it is in the mid 20's in the morning when I have o get to work ... and I refused to run the risk of throwing her down! She is too pretty for that
Now all I have left is a look for this subject is a pic I found of a look inside our engines without a teardown
Ride safe!
View attachment 7938

ENGINE​
Engine	1802cc, Air/oil cooled two-cylinder four-stroke boxer engine with two chain-driven camshafts above the drive shaft.
Engine Power	91 hp at 4,750 rpm
Bore x Stroke	4.2” x 3.9”
Compression Ratio	9.6 :1
Fuel delivery	Electronic intake pipe fuel injection, BMS-K+ electronic engine management with overrun cut-off and twin-spark ignition.
Starter	Electric
Max Torque	116 lbs-ft at 3,000 rpm

Thanks,though I did not see the fuel injectors in the photo.I found the type of efi that BMW uses on the R18s the other day.I can not find any other description of how the Intake pipe fuel injection works.
I did find this for the BMS-K system and some other confusing diagrams,but nothing on the efi.
The engine management unit, BMS-K (BMW Motor-Steuerung mit Klopfregelung, or engine management with knock sensor), performs a similar function for engine-related inputs and outputs. Its inputs include the starter button, kill switch, sidestand switch, clutch switch, gear position indicator, and various engine sensors. Outputs control the starter, fuel pump, injectors, ignition coils, and warning lights, among other things.
Hopefully there are some folks here that can add to the conversation.Again,and nothing against the dealers.I have gotten more information and help here than anywhere else.Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[Ulrich]

Yes indeed the 'Klopf Sensor' (ping or knock sensor) might be what I mistook for an injector ... however ... I found this and it does suggest that the injectors are located on or close to the head rather than on the throttle body ...




Danged !!! we need a shop manual ... BMW if you hear us ... please be merciful and provide/make available such an animal!!


Edit: ... this may help out somebody Parts Fiche BMW R18

 

[Wreckit]

Gentlemen,

I don't pretend to be an expert but the forum is here to learn so I am not sure but are these bikes not Throttle body injection? I took a couple of pics of the BMW custom bikes that came with a factory ride day. This one was stripped down and I took the pics for a future reference. Let me know if I am wrong in my thinking? I think it has a single injector that works just like a carburetor. The injector squirts the fuel into the intake manifold and intake stroke pulls the fuel in?

 

[Ulrich]

Gentlemen,

I don't pretend to be an expert but the forum is here to learn so I am not sure but are these bikes not Throttle body injection? I took a couple of pics of the BMW custom bikes that came with a factory ride day. This one was stripped down and I took the pics for a future reference. Let me know if I am wrong in my thinking? I think it has a single injector that works just like a carburetor. The injector squirts the fuel into the intake manifold and intake stroke pulls the fuel in?

That would be in line with what R18C said ... I stand corrected ...and thanks for the pics!!

 

[Ulrich]

OK ... now I am flopping with my opinion like a fish on land ... I am going back to my original statement that the injectors are at the head pointing into the valve cavity .. this whole thing left me no peace, so i took the cover off first chance I got and took another look.

#1 is definitely the injector body #2 the fuel supply line and #3 the trigger wire. Which would go conform with the fuel line diagram/parts list that I posted earlier.
This would make sense in my head, the closer to the head that you can apply the proper fuel mixture the more efficient the engine ... having said that, the picture you posted 'Wreckit' is a good looking custom, but also horribly inefficient when it comes to fuel mix, you would have the same issues that the old VW beetle had .. a fuel manifold so long that the atomised fuel particles are starting to condense again before they actually get into the combustion chamber ...
... now all that had nothing to do with an oil catch can .. and I am sorry for side-tracking your thread R18C

 

[Adrian R]

OK ... now I am flopping with my opinion like a fish on land ... I am going back to my original statement that the injectors are at the head pointing into the valve cavity .. this whole thing left me no peace, so i took the cover off first chance I got and took another look.
View attachment 8101
#1 is definitely the injector body #2 the fuel supply line and #3 the trigger wire. Which would go conform with the fuel line diagram/parts list that I posted earlier.
This would make sense in my head, the closer to the head that you can apply the proper fuel mixture the more efficient the engine ... having said that, the picture you posted 'Wreckit' is a good looking custom, but also horribly inefficient when it comes to fuel mix, you would have the same issues that the old VW beetle had .. a fuel manifold so long that the atomised fuel particles are starting to condense again before they actually get into the combustion chamber ...
... now all that had nothing to do with an oil catch can .. and I am sorry for side-tracking your thread R18C

I think this pic illustrates it all. It's quite self evident. Direct combustion chamber injection. No throttle body here.

 

[Deleted member 939]

Again,the issue is recycled oil from the crank case going into the engine that passes thru the intake valve without having any fuel to help clean the valve.I see some of the original GDI engines are now using both TBI & GDI.The Throttle Body Injection keeps the valves clean with fuel while the Gasoline Direct Injection gets the increased fuel mileage.Toyota and Hyundai have these systems.Otherwise the GDI engines will need a periodic valve cleaning.
I have a mechanic that I have been using for years.He and his son are from Indonesia and they can do about anything.They do tuner cars and can put a blower on a lawn mower if needed,LOL! Anyway,he showed me the machine he uses to clean automobile GDI engines with.It is not something the average guy would purchase,$$$$.
No worries Ulrich.We are having healthy dialogue.Let me know if you find the recycling breather hose.The last time I had the side covers off, I replaced the air filter and saw a hose that I think was the breather.Not sure though.
Thanks

 

[Deleted member 939]

Gentlemen,

I don't pretend to be an expert but the forum is here to learn so I am not sure but are these bikes not Throttle body injection? I took a couple of pics of the BMW custom bikes that came with a factory ride day. This one was stripped down and I took the pics for a future reference. Let me know if I am wrong in my thinking? I think it has a single injector that works just like a carburetor. The injector squirts the fuel into the intake manifold and intake stroke pulls the fuel in?

Yeah,That is not like the system we have on our R18s.

 

[Ulrich]

Again,the issue is recycled oil from the crank case going into the engine that passes thru the intake valve without having any fuel to help clean the valve.I see some of the original GDI engines are now using both TBI & GDI.The Throttle Body Injection keeps the valves clean with fuel while the Gasoline Direct Injection gets the increased fuel mileage.Toyota and Hyundai have these systems.Otherwise the GDI engines will need a periodic valve cleaning.
I have a mechanic that I have been using for years.He and his son are from Indonesia and they can do about anything.They do tuner cars and can put a blower on a lawn mower if needed,LOL! Anyway,he showed me the machine he uses to clean automobile GDI engines with.It is not something the average guy would purchase,$$$$.
No worries Ulrich.We are having healthy dialogue.Let me know if you find the recycling breather hose.The last time I had the side covers off, I replaced the air filter and saw a hose that I think was the breather.Not sure though.
Thanks

Will do! ... and thanks for the engaging conversation/dialogue ... having a peek into the breather compartment/area is on the top of my list .. I am always really interested how stuff works .. especially when I own it