R1200C demise not R18 problem

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Back at the turn of the century, Honda was selling V-twin Extreme bikes known as VTX. The big V-twins were very popular and Honda sold them in massive quantities.
The timing for BMW was unfortunate because the R1200c was smallish next to the VTX 1800 and VTX 1300. To make matters worse, the R1200c was UNDERPOWERED.
My beautiful C simply could not accelerate me well.
The R18 does not have a problem with lack of power acceleration.
 
True...it is though true the R18 has it own set of 'features' that the buying public might not appreciate :)
I was surprised to see on the bmw configuration page one could build an R18 now days for something like 14K ball park. Thinking when first released it was around 20k.

Maybe bmw 'reset' the price for the base model to a lower level once they found out it was not selling that well. Now if they would just drop the bagger down to around 15k bet they could get more to buy one.
 
motoring said:
True...it is though true the R18 has it own set of 'features' that the buying public might not appreciate :)
I was surprised to see on the bmw configuration page one could build an R18 now days for something like 14K ball park. Thinking when first released it was around 20k.

Maybe bmw 'reset' the price for the base model to a lower level once they found out it was not selling that well. Now if they would just drop the bagger down to around 15k bet they could get more to buy one.
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Considering the competition, really Harley Street/Road Glide and Indian Chieftain/Challenger, start in the 22k range for a bare bones Street/Road Glide, and realistically are 25k-30k... I would be surprised if BMW would need to go any lower chasing folks who just would never buy another brand. There are R18Bs (with electronics packages) commonly sub 20k and easily around 22k with current incentives. When you compare features (sure, some folks don't care about electronics), fit, and finish, the R18B is a pretty great value proposition in the segment, if you are interested in the brand, quirks, and don't care much about forward controls.

Again, the biggest issue with R18s in the US is that (in my experience) most riders outside of big cities see two things: Harley's and crotch rockets. Heck, I was at a dice run a few weeks ago on the R9T and some guy was like "oh, it's a BMW, so you go offroad?" because all BMWs are GSs to folks who have never seen anything but a Harley closer than 20 feet. BMW isn't going to sell a bike to those folks, and shouldn't waste time trying. Keep it a solid value proposition for folks whoa re already willing to buy Japanese/European bikes that don't want a sport tourer, and they'll probably be fine.
 
With the R1200C, the "issue" seemed to be (from my perspective) that folks who wanted a cruiser didn't consider BMWs and folks who liked BMWs didn't consider cruisers. There were oddballs like me who loved the bike, but we were few and far between.

I'm not sure that the R18 is any different. Regarding power, the R1200C had plenty of torque and had specs that were just fine by cruiser standards of the day, so I don't think that was a real consideration regarding the sales volume.
 
The R1200 c is one of many missteps any manufacturer takes. It was underpowered, had awful chrome, tried to be retro with a telelever front end… I have a long long list of why the R1200c was a hideous flop
The R18, aesthetically, is flawless and has a torque curve that could scare anyone at full chat. In the end its not going to be a sales leader because its not what BMW riders generally want. It fits a special niche; I’d love a vintage BMW but I’m lazy. This solved the problem :)
 
Mr. Efficiency said:
The R1200 c is one of many missteps any manufacturer takes. It was underpowered, had awful chrome, tried to be retro with a telelever front end… I have a long long list of why the R1200c was a hideous flop
The R18, aesthetically, is flawless and has a torque curve that could scare anyone at full chat. In the end its not going to be a sales leader because its not what BMW riders generally want. It fits a special niche; I’d love a vintage BMW but I’m lazy. This solved the problem :)
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I would have to agree that the chrome had problems with pitting (especially the rims). Some on the chromeheads forum claimed a distinction between Berlin built vs Mexico built models.
I personally loved the front end telelever. There was no compression on the forks during braking.
I hated the fact that the battery was under the tank. Who came up with that idea?
 
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I love my R18.
And I still love my R1200C Montauk 17 years after buying it.
You want to know why?
It's just a fantastic bike.
The telelever front end is a treat!
The power braking is astounding.
The road behaviour is just perfect.
And the design is exclusive, and needs no comparison.
I'd like to know how many Montauk have been built. Certainly a few.
 
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Gerard said:
I'd like to know how many Montauk have been built. Certainly a few.
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Here's some production info, but it looks like they bunch the models up together for each year.

Numbers Produced by year - Information courtesy of The Chromeheads

1997: 8.161 (R 1200 C Classic)
1998: 7.618 (R 1200 C Classic)
1999: 6.407 (R 1200 C Classic)
2000: 4.558 (R 1200 C Classic, R 1200 C Independent)
2001: 4.882 (R 1200 C Classic, R 1200 C Independent)
2002: 4.163 (R 1200 C Classic, R 1200 C Independent, R 1200 CL)
2003: 6.556 (R 1200 C Classic, R 1200 C Independent, R 1200 CL)
2004: 3.394 (R 1200 C Classic, R 1200 C Independent, R 1200 C Montauk, R1200 CL)

from http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/specpages/R1200Cmontauk.htm :
 
Mr. Efficiency said:
It was underpowered, had awful chrome, tried to be retro with a telelever front end… I have a long long list of why the R1200c was a hideous flop
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I couldn't disagree more. I and many others loved that bike. I still kick myself for getting rid of it when I was getting the R18. The R18 is a different bike, and I love it also, but back in '99 when I got my 1200C, its combination of torque and handling beat other cruisers from my perspective. Nearly 100n-m of torque at 3000rmp and 200 lbs lighter than the R18.... I just don't remember anybody complaining about it at the time.

And I don't recall it being marketed as "retro" at all. It was just BMW's take on a modern cruiser at the time.

It wasn't a flop any more than the R18 is a flop. It made a big splash at the time but was never ubiquitous. I really don't think that the R18 will be any different, which is fine by me.

As to awful chrome, I don't get that either. This was mine just before I got rid of it after more than 20 years of ownership. Chrome held up great. It was garage kept, but other than that, I didn't do anything special in the care and feeding department.

While you might personally hate the looks, I can promise you that there are a bunch of people who also hate the R18's looks also. My airhead friends think that the R18 is the biggest abomination since...well...the R1200C....

R1200C2.jpg
 
R12C-R18TC said:
I would have to agree that the chrome had problems with pitting (especially the rims). Some on the chromeheads forum claimed a distinction between Berlin built vs Mexico built models.
I personally loved the front end telelever. There was no compression on the forks during braking.
I hated the fact that the battery was under the tank. Who came up with that idea?
Click to expand...
Honda…aka like they did with the air filter on the new/current gen goldwing :)
 
VARG said:
Here's some production info, but it looks like they bunch the models up together for each year.

Numbers Produced by year - Information courtesy of The Chromeheads

1997: 8.161 (R 1200 C Classic)
1998: 7.618 (R 1200 C Classic)
1999: 6.407 (R 1200 C Classic)
2000: 4.558 (R 1200 C Classic, R 1200 C Independent)
2001: 4.882 (R 1200 C Classic, R 1200 C Independent)
2002: 4.163 (R 1200 C Classic, R 1200 C Independent, R 1200 CL)
2003: 6.556 (R 1200 C Classic, R 1200 C Independent, R 1200 CL)
2004: 3.394 (R 1200 C Classic, R 1200 C Independent, R 1200 C Montauk, R1200 CL)

from http://www.bmbikes.co.uk/specpages/R1200Cmontauk.htm :
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Wonder how many r1200clc models they built. Man, that front end. Only a mother of a certain type could love it.
 
tommymck said:
I couldn't disagree more. I and many others loved that bike. I still kick myself for getting rid of it when I was getting the R18. The R18 is a different bike, and I love it also, but back in '99 when I got my 1200C, its combination of torque and handling beat other cruisers from my perspective. Nearly 100n-m of torque at 3000rmp and 200 lbs lighter than the R18.... I just don't remember anybody complaining about it at the time.

And I don't recall it being marketed as "retro" at all. It was just BMW's take on a modern cruiser at the time.

It wasn't a flop any more than the R18 is a flop. It made a big splash at the time but was never ubiquitous. I really don't think that the R18 will be any different, which is fine by me.

As to awful chrome, I don't get that either. This was mine just before I got rid of it after more than 20 years of ownership. Chrome held up great. It was garage kept, but other than that, I didn't do anything special in the care and feeding department.

While you might personally hate the looks, I can promise you that there are a bunch of people who also hate the R18's looks also. My airhead friends think that the R18 is the biggest abomination since...well...the R1200C....

View attachment 7176
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Sweet looking ride. Just missed getting a used r1200cl by ‘that much’…a day. It was listed and sold for only $3,500
 
The notion that the R1200C had pitting chrome came from reading it repeatedly on the chromeheads forum.
My first C was a 2004 and had bad pitting. My 2nd C was a 2001 and had very little pitting. I can’t explain why.
 
tommymck said:
I couldn't disagree more. I and many others loved that bike. I still kick myself for getting rid of it when I was getting the R18. The R18 is a different bike, and I love it also, but back in '99 when I got my 1200C, its combination of torque and handling beat other cruisers from my perspective. Nearly 100n-m of torque at 3000rmp and 200 lbs lighter than the R18.... I just don't remember anybody complaining about it at the time.

And I don't recall it being marketed as "retro" at all. It was just BMW's take on a modern cruiser at the time.

It wasn't a flop any more than the R18 is a flop. It made a big splash at the time but was never ubiquitous. I really don't think that the R18 will be any different, which is fine by me.

As to awful chrome, I don't get that either. This was mine just before I got rid of it after more than 20 years of ownership. Chrome held up great. It was garage kept, but other than that, I didn't do anything special in the care and feeding department.

While you might personally hate the looks, I can promise you that there are a bunch of people who also hate the R18's looks also. My airhead friends think that the R18 is the biggest abomination since...well...the R1200C....

View attachment 7176
Click to expand...
It’s funny, I have ridden BMWs for 25 years. When the R1200C came out, I loved the look and test rode it. It was nice, but did feel underpowered for me & I didn’t like it enough to trade in my R1100GS at the time.

I now have a R18 Classic & an old Airhead (1972 R75/5), but still love the R1200C. Maybe I’m the exception as I think BMW built a beautiful bike with both the R1200C & R18, yet I still love my old Airhead too.
 
nielsm said:
It’s funny, I have ridden BMWs for 25 years. When the R1200C came out, I loved the look and test rode it. It was nice, but did feel underpowered for me & I didn’t like it enough to trade in my R1100GS at the time.

I now have a R18 Classic & an old Airhead (1972 R75/5), but still love the R1200C. Maybe I’m the exception as I think BMW built a beautiful bike with both the R1200C & R18, yet I still love my old Airhead too.
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Smart man indeed...loving that old r75/5 :)
 
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