BT Moto...the customer is always wrong!

I find it interesting it wasn't the party that was out $700 that went public. BT could have come on here complaining about Enzo and accusing him of fraud, etc, etc. But they didn't. They tried to handle it privately. Not only that but despite getting no response they still didn't go public. It was Enzo that lobbed the grenade and when it bounced back his way he went into full cover up and deny mode. I wasn't a part of any of this other than I was part of the group buy but as a bystander there's only one side of the story that makes sense and IMO that's BT's version. As has been said, everything BT is claiming can be backed up with documented evidence but, so far, all Enzo has is he said/she said comments.

The comments about BT being hucksters is absurd. They were a well established business in the motorcycle industry long before the R18 showed up. No business ever makes a lot of money by selling 20 pieces of anything. There's no doubt in my mind that, so far, they haven't recouped their development costs for the R18 tune. Like every other business they're trying to get their product out to the public by doing a discount buy to the one group of people most likely to sing their praises or, if the product sucks, to let them know why.

I don't know who or why the chargeback was initiated but it's a 100% certainty it was initiated by some person or entity on Enzo's behalf. Until that is addressed by Enzo any claims he puts forth about the integrity of BT is worthless IMO.

I have absolutely no problem with BT employing a minor slight of hand to recoup their product when the other party had been unresponsive. Well played.
 
This thread imo n
Caveman said:
I find it interesting it wasn't the party that was out $700 that went public. BT could have come on here complaining about Enzo and accusing him of fraud, etc, etc. But they didn't. They tried to handle it privately. Not only that but despite getting no response they still didn't go public. It was Enzo that lobbed the grenade and when it bounced back his way he went into full cover up and deny mode. I wasn't a part of any of this other than I was part of the group buy but as a bystander there's only one side of the story that makes sense and IMO that's BT's version. As has been said, everything BT is claiming can be backed up with documented evidence but, so far, all Enzo has is he said/she said comments.

The comments about BT being hucksters is absurd. They were a well established business in the motorcycle industry long before the R18 showed up. No business ever makes a lot of money by selling 20 pieces of anything. There's no doubt in my mind that, so far, they haven't recouped their development costs for the R18 tune. Like every other business they're trying to get their product out to the public by doing a discount buy to the one group of people most likely to sing their praises or, if the product sucks, to let them know why.

I don't know who or why the chargeback was initiated but it's a 100% certainty it was initiated by some person or entity on Enzo's behalf. Until that is addressed by Enzo any claims he puts forth about the integrity of BT is worthless IMO.

I have absolutely no problem with BT employing a minor slight of hand to recoup their product when the other party had been unresponsive. Well played.
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Thread locking time I think is in order imo. Any further dialog can only be counter productive.
 
Adrian R said:
This thread imo n


Thread locking time I think is in order imo. Any further dialog can only be counter productive.
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I'm somewhat in disagreement. (selfishly, its excellent theatre). For the forum however, this is important, as BT Moto is a critical vendor to this bike, thus the forum and Enzo has been a long standing member, almost since day 1 I believe. Without the drama of BlackDog on almost a daily basis, it's been a little dull around here limiting discussions to merely "bike stuff".
 
Michigan Tim said:
I'm somewhat in disagreement. (selfishly, its excellent theatre). For the forum however, this is important, as BT Moto is a critical vendor to this bike, thus the forum and Enzo has been a long standing member, almost since day 1 I believe. Without the drama of BlackDog on almost a daily basis, it's been a little dull around here limiting discussions to merely "bike stuff".
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There's *plenty of theater* for that crap elsewhere thank you, and productive *bike stuff* I find personally anything but dull...
 
Adrian R said:
There's *plenty of theater* for that crap elsewhere thank you, and productive *bike stuff* I find personally anything but dull...
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My point is that any good bike forum has topics and threads that expand beyond simply the bikes. Plus, there is a 2nd wave of members around here now that are bringing up some of the same topics that were discussed almost two years ago here. That's part of the "dull" for some of us original members. I am not saying that this 2nd wave of new owners do not bring excellent perspective and thoughts, just that some of the topics are retreads. The entire forum has been waiting for a provider of a tune for this bike. We now have one. We also now have a controversy between said provider and an original member. To me, the outcome of this could be considered relevant.
 
Michigan Tim said:
My point is that any good bike forum has topics and threads that expand beyond simply the bikes. Plus, there is a 2nd wave of members around here now that are bringing up some of the same topics that were discussed almost two years ago here. That's part of the "dull" for some of us original members. I am not saying that this 2nd wave of new owners do not bring excellent perspective and thoughts, just that some of the topics are retreads. The entire forum has been waiting for a provider of a tune for this bike. We now have one. We also now have a controversy between said provider and an original member. To me, the outcome of this could be considered relevant.
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What's *relevant* has been obviously realized, and that's making the assumption you've read through the entire thread. Nothing more can be gained outside of meaningless, emotionally derived diatribe...
 
Adrian R said:
What's *relevant* has been obviously realized, and that's making the assumption you've read through the entire thread. Nothing more can be gained outside of meaningless, emotionally derived diatribe...
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The assumption would be that no one is interested in seeing if a major character flaw is revealed here, either in a vendor or a member. We can agree to disagree though.
 
Just want to say that as a repeat BT customer, I have been very satisfied with both my experiences with Bren Tuning. The BT tune on my K1600 Grand America really woke up the bike. Although I haven't loaded the BT tune on my R18 yet, I am confident that I will be happy with that as well. Very sorry to see this play out in public but charge backs don't just randomly happen. Just saying...

FYI - The BT K1600 tune is extremely popular (hundreds of users), on the K1600 forum and I haven't seen any complaints regarding customer service...
 
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There isn't much more to an outcome.

Enzo has trashed his reputation, at least in pretend forum land, for whatever that means. Easy come, easy go.
I assume Enzo is not his real name. Real life is just fine, but he had to pay for something. Duh.

BrenTune have shown themselves to be the wronged party, but then acted snidely to cause a bit of inconvenience.
I'm guessing BT are a small mom&pop type shop, if I pulled that sh.t where I work, right or wrong, I would be sacked.

That's all folks.
 
Im very happy with Bren Tune, my R18, RT1250 and my RnineT are tuned by him and i have no bad experience. All customer or tune service was good and quick email response.
 
TodkaVonic said:
Wow. An admitted liar calling a known and established member a thief. That's something.

Hey BT, I haven't installed the tune I bought, i'm returning it.
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So let me get this straight, if someone steals something from me I'm not allowed to deceive them in order to get my stuff back? There's a big difference between tricking someone into returning your stuff and a being an admitted liar.

I don't know Enzo from Adam. He may be a great guy that just completely fumbled this. Stuff happens. However, simply being a member of this forum doesn't automatically make him an upstanding stalwart of the community either.
 
Caveman said:
So let me get this straight, if someone steals something from me I'm not allowed to deceive them in order to get my stuff back? There's a big difference between tricking someone into returning your stuff and a being an admitted liar.

I don't know Enzo from Adam. He may be a great guy that just completely fumbled this. Stuff happens. However, simply being a member of this forum doesn't automatically make him an upstanding stalwart of the community either.
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Three points:

1)You’ve concluded that he knew he stole something. I don’t think he did and I’m basing that on the fact that he accepted the “help” of the business he supposedly stole from (and who he KNOWS from email that they KNOW that he stole from) to fix the nonexistent bug. Get it? That doesn’t make sense.
2) You may see disparities between a lie, a white lie, and lying to get a product you think was stolen from you back, but regardless they’re all lies. If you lie and say yeah I lied, you’re an admitted liar.
3) I’ve never met Enzo. Everything I know about him I’ve gathered from interactions here over about, what? 2 years? It’s always been cordial and forthright. Nobody, that I can recall, has ever complained about him at all. And yes, I believe that a continued positive presence here does grant you the benefit of the doubt. It’s really much the same as many of you taking BTs word for it based on good prior and current relationships. Enzo says he didn’t know, I’m starting by taking his word for it. If you look at the entire episode with that as a baseline, everything (him accepting help, his indignation at being treated (as he saw it) poorly, the immediate purchase of the tune) makes sense.
 
TodkaVonic said:
Three points:

1)You’ve concluded that he knew he stole something. I don’t think he did and I’m basing that on the fact that he accepted the “help” of the business he supposedly stole from (and who he KNOWS from email that they KNOW that he stole from) to fix the nonexistent bug. Get it? That doesn’t make sense.
2) You may see disparities between a lie, a white lie, and lying to get a product you think was stolen from you back, but regardless they’re all lies. If you lie and say yeah I lied, you’re an admitted liar.
3) I’ve never met Enzo. Everything I know about him I’ve gathered from interactions here over about, what? 2 years? It’s always been cordial and forthright. Nobody, that I can recall, has ever complained about him at all. And yes, I believe that a continued positive presence here does grant you the benefit of the doubt. It’s really much the same as many of you taking BTs word for it based on good prior and current relationships. Enzo says he didn’t know, I’m starting by taking his word for it. If you look at the entire episode with that as a baseline, everything (him accepting help, his indignation at being treated (as he saw it) poorly, the immediate purchase of the tune) makes sense.
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i don't take anyones word. i don't assume he tried to steal something. I look at the facts presented. he said,she said by @enzo5000 vs actual email thread and phone call attempts by @BT Moto. oh, he has all this same information.

it is my perception that you assume we think he was fraudulent. it is possible it is also not possible. regardless of intent, the chargeback occurred on his end. not but bt moto and very likely not the bank. for what ever reasons he got his panties in a bunch and made a simple misstep into a big deal.

** a big deal all because he didn't take a moment to confirm the originator of the chargeback.

**. Bt moto tried to resolve the issue. he did not.

i expect by now he knows who did the charge back, yet all we hear is crickets...hmmm
 
Gr8adv said:
i don't take anyones word. i don't assume he tried to steal something. I look at the facts presented. he said,she said by @enzo5000 vs actual email thread and phone call attempts by @BT Moto. oh, he has all this same information.

it is my perception that you assume we think he was fraudulent. it is possible it is also not possible. regardless of intent, the chargeback occurred on his end. not but bt moto and very likely not the bank. for what ever reasons he got his panties in a bunch and made a simple misstep into a big deal.

** a big deal all because he didn't take a moment to confirm the originator of the chargeback.

**. Bt moto tried to resolve the issue. he did not.

i expect by now he knows who did the charge back, yet all we hear is crickets...hmmm
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Did Enzo end up resolving the issue and end up with a tune is the question?

If things were worked out there was no reason to take a shit here.

3 reasons to think before speaking
1) Does it need to be said?

2) Who will it hurt?

3 )What will I gain?
 
TodkaVonic said:
Three points:

1)You’ve concluded that he knew he stole something. I don’t think he did and I’m basing that on the fact that he accepted the “help” of the business he supposedly stole from (and who he KNOWS from email that they KNOW that he stole from) to fix the nonexistent bug. Get it? That doesn’t make sense.
2) You may see disparities between a lie, a white lie, and lying to get a product you think was stolen from you back, but regardless they’re all lies. If you lie and say yeah I lied, you’re an admitted liar.
3) I’ve never met Enzo. Everything I know about him I’ve gathered from interactions here over about, what? 2 years? It’s always been cordial and forthright. Nobody, that I can recall, has ever complained about him at all. And yes, I believe that a continued positive presence here does grant you the benefit of the doubt. It’s really much the same as many of you taking BTs word for it based on good prior and current relationships. Enzo says he didn’t know, I’m starting by taking his word for it. If you look at the entire episode with that as a baseline, everything (him accepting help, his indignation at being treated (as he saw it) poorly, the immediate purchase of the tune) makes sense.
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Three counterpoints.

1. I've never said Enzo stole anything. In fact I worded my comments carefully to avoid just that. I spoke generically on purpose.
2. By your definition of a lie every undercover law enforcement operation is perpetrated by liars.
3. I've never met Enzo either which is why I specifically said he may be a great guy that just fumbled this event.

OTOH, you seem willing to throw BT under the bus despite them having proof of their side of the story. Why don't they get the same benefit of the doubt you're willing to give Enzo?
 
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