How would you describe the R18?

TodkaVonic said:
I guess that when I think "cruiser," I think more about the riding style than anything else. 65 mph in 6th gear. Long sweeping turns. Easy. Relaxed. I don't care one lick where my feet are, because it's all about the laid-back ride. Can't do that on my Ducati. No. She needs 6k RPM and/or 80 mph, just to be happy.

Anyhow, looking at contemporaneous bikes, would you say that it's in the same category as the A) Ducati Diavel B) Triumph Rocket 3 C) Honda CB1100EX D) Moto Guzzi Audace E) none of the above?

Remember, you're speaking to someone motorcycle-naive. You say "sport-standard", she thinks crotch-rocket.
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Well you didn't ask me but I've gotta weigh in...being an owner of a 2012 Diavel Carbon (before the de-tuning in subsequent model years) my R18 is definitely NOT in the same category...not even remotely close to my Duck. I bought my Diavel new and it is the only motorcycle I've ever owned that tries to intimidate me every time I ride it - that's why I love it!! I've owned several HDs in my life and my R18 certainly feels like a cruiser to me. A cruiser that handles good (within reason), runs great, has gobs of torque, more suitable for a brisk country-side ride than any HD I've ever ridden (except the V-Rod and FXDRS 114), with the handling benefit of mid-controls instead of forward controls. I've no intention of "dressing" it because to me, it is the ultimate cruiser...
 
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TodkaVonic said:
I guess that when I think "cruiser," I think more about the riding style than anything else. 65 mph in 6th gear. Long sweeping turns. Easy. Relaxed. I don't care one lick where my feet are, because it's all about the laid-back ride. Can't do that on my Ducati. No. She needs 6k RPM and/or 80 mph, just to be happy.

Anyhow, looking at contemporaneous bikes, would you say that it's in the same category as the A) Ducati Diavel B) Triumph Rocket 3 C) Honda CB1100EX D) Moto Guzzi Audace E) none of the above?

Remember, you're speaking to someone motorcycle-naive. You say "sport-standard", she thinks crotch-rocket.
Click to expand...

Back when magazines were all still printed on paper and the journalists, not the manufacturers, were the ones who labeled bikes as sportbike, standard, cruiser, etc. they came up with those categories based on what the bike's apparent user-mission was, taking into account the machine's ergonomics and capabilities. Naturally many were no-brainers, like the Kawasaki Ninja series (Sportbikes) and virtually all HDs (Cruisers) excepting models like the XR1000 & the XLCR. Before 1980 90% of all Japanese bikes were simply labeled as Standards because they were naked of any bodywork that was reminiscent of most race bikes. And the Standards were the "all around use" machines that had a neutral riding position which typically placed the rider's feet below the knee or thighs, hands on the grips at about the lower chest level, upper body slightly leaning forward in order to combat wind blast and performance biased toward excellent commuting use, with overall engine & chassis performance designed for all sorts of riding. As performance capabilities grew toward ever higher speeds with better chassis and stronger engines, the manufacturers started dressing their new models to look the part of being Sportbikes. HD typically sat back and continued to produce machines with capabilities and riding position biased toward relaxed, lower speed riding, i.e. Cruisers. In the 80s & 90s many manufacturers came up with bikes that had definite high-performance chassis and engines that really hauled arse, but were still naked of Sportbike bodywork and still had more comfortable ergonomics. Those machines were often labeled (naked) Sport-Standards.

None of the bikes that you listed are Cruisers. The Ducati Diavel & Honda CB1100EX would definitely qualify as SERIOUS Sport-Standards.

Lastly, I take particular exception to labeling the R18 as a Cruiser because it isn't one and that label is going to hurt it's sale. People do pay attention to ad copy and many who want a Cruiser will try it out and walk away after realizing it isn't what they want. Others who would like to own a very capable all-around great motorcycle with strong performance won't even try it out because they have no use for something that's supposedly a "German Harley". BMW f*cked up calling the R18 a Cruiser and I told that to our regional BMW representative a couple of weeks ago.
 
theMucker said:
Back when magazines were all still printed on paper and the journalists, not the manufacturers, were the ones who labeled bikes as sportbike, standard, cruiser, etc. they came up with those categories based on what the bike's apparent user-mission was, taking into account the machine's ergonomics and capabilities. Naturally many were no-brainers, like the Kawasaki Ninja series (Sportbikes) and virtually all HDs (Cruisers) excepting models like the XR1000 & the XLCR. Before 1980 90% of all Japanese bikes were simply labeled as Standards because they were naked of any bodywork that was reminiscent of most race bikes. And the Standards were the "all around use" machines that had a neutral riding position which typically placed the rider's feet below the knee or thighs, hands on the grips at about the lower chest level, upper body slightly leaning forward in order to combat wind blast and performance biased toward excellent commuting use, with overall engine & chassis performance designed for all sorts of riding. As performance capabilities grew toward ever higher speeds with better chassis and stronger engines, the manufacturers started dressing their new models to look the part of being Sportbikes. HD typically sat back and continued to produce machines with capabilities and riding position biased toward relaxed, lower speed riding, i.e. Cruisers. In the 80s & 90s many manufacturers came up with bikes that had definite high-performance chassis and engines that really hauled arse, but were still naked of Sportbike bodywork and still had more comfortable ergonomics. Those machines were often labeled (naked) Sport-Standards.

None of the bikes that you listed are Cruisers. The Ducati Diavel & Honda CB1100EX would definitely qualify as SERIOUS Sport-Standards.

Lastly, I take particular exception to labeling the R18 as a Cruiser because it isn't one and that label is going to hurt it's sale. People do pay attention to ad copy and many who want a Cruiser will try it out and walk away after realizing it isn't what they want. Others who would like to own a very capable all-around great motorcycle with strong performance won't even try it out because they have no use for something that's supposedly a "German Harley". BMW f*cked up calling the R18 a Cruiser and I told that to our regional BMW representative a couple of weeks ago.
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Thanks Mucker. I think you must be confusing the cb1100ex with something else. It’s pretty much the prototypical ‘Standard’ bike, IMO And, based on reviews (I’ve never ridden one) very much un-sport-like. Calm. Solid. Linear torque. Etc. I’d argue that of the options I listed above, it may be the most like our R18: Air-cooled. Wire wheels. Torquey engine. Retro vibe. Upright seating. Chrome and metal. Excellent build.

4E25FBD5-B8DC-48CA-93CB-179EAC23120A.jpeg
 
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theMucker said:
Back when magazines were all still printed on paper and the journalists, not the manufacturers, were the ones who labeled bikes as sportbike, standard, cruiser, etc. they came up with those categories based on what the bike's apparent user-mission was, taking into account the machine's ergonomics and capabilities. Naturally many were no-brainers, like the Kawasaki Ninja series (Sportbikes) and virtually all HDs (Cruisers) excepting models like the XR1000 & the XLCR. Before 1980 90% of all Japanese bikes were simply labeled as Standards because they were naked of any bodywork that was reminiscent of most race bikes. And the Standards were the "all around use" machines that had a neutral riding position which typically placed the rider's feet below the knee or thighs, hands on the grips at about the lower chest level, upper body slightly leaning forward in order to combat wind blast and performance biased toward excellent commuting use, with overall engine & chassis performance designed for all sorts of riding. As performance capabilities grew toward ever higher speeds with better chassis and stronger engines, the manufacturers started dressing their new models to look the part of being Sportbikes. HD typically sat back and continued to produce machines with capabilities and riding position biased toward relaxed, lower speed riding, i.e. Cruisers. In the 80s & 90s many manufacturers came up with bikes that had definite high-performance chassis and engines that really hauled arse, but were still naked of Sportbike bodywork and still had more comfortable ergonomics. Those machines were often labeled (naked) Sport-Standards.

None of the bikes that you listed are Cruisers. The Ducati Diavel & Honda CB1100EX would definitely qualify as SERIOUS Sport-Standards.

Lastly, I take particular exception to labeling the R18 as a Cruiser because it isn't one and that label is going to hurt it's sale. People do pay attention to ad copy and many who want a Cruiser will try it out and walk away after realizing it isn't what they want. Others who would like to own a very capable all-around great motorcycle with strong performance won't even try it out because they have no use for something that's supposedly a "German Harley". BMW f*cked up calling the R18 a Cruiser and I told that to our regional BMW representative a couple of weeks ago.
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Maybe just maybe "Cruiser", like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder!
 
TodkaVonic said:
Thanks Mucker. I think you must be confusing the cb1100ex with something else. It’s pretty much the prototypical ‘Standard’ bike, IMO And, based on reviews (I’ve never ridden one) very much un-sport-like. Calm. Solid. Linear torque. Etc

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Hi TV. That's why I called it a Sport-Standard. The CB100EX is naked and it's ergonomics are unlike most Sportbikes, but it has significant sporting capabilities.
 
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Gaylord Poe said:
Maybe just maybe "Cruiser", like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder!
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I'm sure that you're right, GP. Truth to tell, pigeon holing different bikes into categories is not only confusing. It's often misleading enough that it can effect sales. Your previous post serves to highlight the confusion. Not because you are confused (you're NOT!), but because categorizing itself is not a defined method and it benefits few.
I love the Diavel for it's uniqueness and it's amazing performance. And, like the R18, you can cruise on it to your heart's content. AND there's little of either that's similar to most HDs, beyond the facts that they are motorcycles.
 
theMucker said:
I'm sure that you're right, GP. Truth to tell, pigeon holing different bikes into categories is not only confusing. It's often misleading enough that it can effect sales. Your previous post serves to highlight the confusion. Not because you are confused (you're NOT!), but because categorizing itself is not a defined method and it benefits few.
I love the Diavel for it's uniqueness and it's amazing performance. And, like the R18, you can cruise on it to your heart's content. AND there's little of either that's similar to most HDs, beyond the facts that they are motorcycles.
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Amen Sister Sledge hehehe
 
TO ME its a cruiser.
Oversize front tire.
HUGE locking kickstand
Levers big enough for a giant even though they are not needed
Long and low
Minimal ground clearance
Pipes on each side
Single dash gauge.
When I bought my Laminar lip, it was for a universal cruiser windshield.
Lines that flow
2x wide handlebars
Dinky little perch for the passenger.
Pleather saddle bags.
The classic is supposed to come with boards instead of pegs

When I ride my Versys, or Air Head ,or R1200R (which are all "standard") in the twisties, I ride on the balls of my feet. I can't even do that on the R18.

1.8 Liter, less than 100 HP. They get double that out of the 1 liter S1000R. 160 from the K1600. Why? Because its not all about speed.

Its a beautiful bike, but sport does not fit.

As I put more miles on it, I am getting better at throwing it into curves and I know when the pegs are going to touch down. Once they do, I am aware of the road, so If the radius is increasing I know to slow down.

If you ask me, looks came first, performance came second.
Push Rods? Retro. Maybe, but not sport or Standard.

I buy motorcycles for the Motor. I am a mechanic. The boxer twin is a great design. Even I wish it had over head cams. However 90 hp is enough for me, I am now 60. Been riding and racing (street) since I was a teenager. I sold my R1200R because I am not afraid of it any more and going 130 mph is not as much in my interest.

I think its a cruiser built by BMW and built right.
David
 
If its not a cruiser, and they did not copy Harley, why does it idle like sh*t when its in ROCK? Smooth as can be in ROLL or RAIN.

For you overseas folks, crappy tickover in ROCK.

David
TodkaVonic said:
Holy chit. Asked 20 people and somehow got 21 opinions😂

I love my not-cruiser standard retro sport cruiser!
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Its a discussion.....Opinions are encouraged. :)
David
 
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