Overheat

Just to be helpful and not to flame:
Unlike HD motorcycles(splash system) the BMW R18 engine is air and oil cooled.Like my Indian Thunderstroke the R18 carries oil pressure to the heads which helps oil cool the heads.
The added oil cooler does just that.It cools the oil.
 
Bwana said:
Off topic; Was the oil cooler standard on the Indian 111 or an accessory? Does she have leg scorching problems like the Scout?
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All early 111 came with the cooler.Later Roadmasters,Chieftains with full fairings came with them Not sure which of the newer models come with them but you can add a oil cooler.
Mine is a 2017 and it came with a cooler(as did my 2014 111).I did the 116 bbk a couple of months ago and it gets real fukcin hot.Funny though.The hotter it gets the better it runs.Sitting in traffic it is pretty miserable and I have the Rinehart headpipe.
My R18 runs much cooler.
 
Thanks. I was thinking of the base Springfield/Vintage and was curious. I think it may be an add on for those. I’ve heard people complaining about the 111s running hot but haven’t had a first hand experience. I just don’t want to go down the heat rabbit hole like I did with the Scout. Zipper intake and non-cat pipes, Tier 1 auto tuner, and coated header pipes. STILL FREAKING HOT! Of course it runs like a bat out of hell but man, nothing works to cool it down.
 
Bwana said:
Thanks. I was thinking of the base Springfield/Vintage and was curious. I think it may be an add on for those. I’ve heard people complaining about the 111s running hot but haven’t had a first hand experience. I just don’t want to go down the heat rabbit hole like I did with the Scout. Zipper intake and non-cat pipes, Tier 1 auto tuner, and coated header pipes. STILL FREAKING HOT! Of course it runs like a bat out of hell but man, nothing works to cool it down.
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Yeah,I had my Rinehart headpipe coated.I will say,The Springfield/Vintage is more open and there is more airflow.I would do a oil cooler and get a power vision tuner from fuel moto.The tuner and tune will cool the Indian down much more than gutting the cat(Very hi flow by the way).Sorry for hijacking this thread too.
PM me if you have questions and I can give you my number.
TK
 
Keehn said:
Moleculo,

Just to be thorough, have you checked the fins on the oil cooler to ensure there's no debris or blockage? I'm sure you have but I thought I'd ask anyways.

Also, has the dealer put an oil pressure gauge on one of the oil passages to measure flow to determine whether it's in spec or not? I noted your comment about thermostat, but I wonder if they actually hooked up a gauge to read the PSI/bar of the oil pressure. Or, does BMW believe in doing anything non-digital anymore? ;)

From what it sounds like to me (behind my keyboard) is there's a blockage and/or something's preventing sufficient flow of oil circulation throughout the engine. Also, that oil's fried, it loses its effectiveness around 275 degrees Fahrenheit. At 330 degrees, I bet you got a black tar sludge fudgemacallit.

Just a couple thoughts.

Mike
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The first time this happened, the ambient temperature was 98 degrees or so. When I got home after the overheat, I inspected the oil cooler and found a big magnolia leaf stuck to the backside, which means air wasn't flowing through it. I suspected that was the culprit and didn't get too concerned until it happened again in 79 degree ambient temperature. I passed all this info on to the service tech.

I talked to the service lead today and he said the entire oil system and oil thermostat checked out fine. Your comment about the oil being fried is also the same thing they said - after it happened the first time, the oil was probably cooked and wasn't doing it's job properly. So now we have new oil and the first service done, we'll see if it happens again with no blockages to the oil cooler.
 
moleculo said:
The first time this happened, the ambient temperature was 98 degrees or so. When I got home after the overheat, I inspected the oil cooler and found a big magnolia leaf stuck to the backside, which means air wasn't flowing through it. I suspected that was the culprit and didn't get too concerned until it happened again in 79 degree ambient temperature. I passed all this info on to the service tech.

I talked to the service lead today and he said the entire oil system and oil thermostat checked out fine. Your comment about the oil being fried is also the same thing they said - after it happened the first time, the oil was probably cooked and wasn't doing it's job properly. So now we have new oil and the first service done, we'll see if it happens again with no blockages to the oil cooler.
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That is 1 thing I do regularly is change the oil every 2500 to 3000.Usually 2500.Best and easiest way to keep your bikes healthy.
 
I live outside of Jax, but spend weekends near the Villages. So, 90°-100°+. We ride nearly every day and have not experienced any real heat coming off of the motor. For reference, I have both the TC & Pure R18 bikes. Oh, we just rode 1500 miles to Raleigh NC, and back. Stuck like Chuck in stop n go traffic, and still, no excessive heat.
 
pbosik said:
I live outside of Jax, but spend weekends near the Villages. So, 90°-100°+. We ride nearly every day and have not experienced any real heat coming off of the motor. For reference, I have both the TC & Pure R18 bikes. Oh, we just rode 1500 miles to Raleigh NC, and back. Stuck like Chuck in stop n go traffic, and still, no excessive heat.
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For anyone not familiar with the area, that is a healthy ride from Jax to the Villages for temps in the mid 90s; and every weekend. Easily in the 100s with the heat index. Hats off to you, I’m home in the AC with a beer by mid afternoon!
 
Bwana said:
For anyone not familiar with the area, that is a healthy ride from Jax to the Villages for temps in the mid 90s; and every weekend. Easily in the 100s with the heat index. Hats off to you, I’m home in the AC with a beer by mid afternoon!
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100 miles each way...no issues whatsoever with either bike.
 
moleculo said:
The first time this happened, the ambient temperature was 98 degrees or so. When I got home after the overheat, I inspected the oil cooler and found a big magnolia leaf stuck to the backside, which means air wasn't flowing through it. I suspected that was the culprit and didn't get too concerned until it happened again in 79 degree ambient temperature. I passed all this info on to the service tech.

I talked to the service lead today and he said the entire oil system and oil thermostat checked out fine. Your comment about the oil being fried is also the same thing they said - after it happened the first time, the oil was probably cooked and wasn't doing it's job properly. So now we have new oil and the first service done, we'll see if it happens again with no blockages to the oil cooler.
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Moleculo,

I was thinking over and over about how exactly our bikes could overheat, especially since the unique boxer design allows equal convection cooling, even at standstill. I decided to look at the microfiche and saw that there's an oil cooler pipe that runs the vertical length of the engine block as shown below:

Oil Cooling Pipe Part Diagram.png Oil Cooler Pipe Outside Engine Block Diagram.png

My hunch is that BMW isn't 100% confident in their small oil radiator design for such as massive 1.8L engine that they designed themselves a way to add additional oil coolers as either technical updates (TU's) or even possible class-action recalls?

Here's my logic, hear me out: Volkswagen had their air-cooled engines of similar displacement as ours for DECADES, but never did they passively cool their oil radiators. The radiators were always placed where the fan could cycle air, thus ensuring oil/engine temps would remain within spec.

Here comes BMW with a GORGEOUS 1.8l boxer engine, but decides to PASSIVELY cool the bike! This logic is great, so long as you keep the bike moving and air flowing over the radiator fins, but not so much if riding in stop and go traffic. I noted there isn't any oil jacket inside the cylinder portion, only channels which to flow oil to and from the heads. Additionally, without knowing true specs of the engine components (e.g. BTU capabilities of the radiator, PSI of oil flow, etc.,) I cannot say for certain whether or not this engine's existing radiator setup is sufficient. However, common-sense and knowledge of the world tells me that a large engine like this DEMANDS an active cooling system and/or a larger radiator and/or multiple radiators for extreme hot and/or extended stopped periods of running.

Moleculo, I think you just exposed one of the R18's achilles' heels....😬

Mike
 
Keehn said:
Moleculo,

I was thinking over and over about how exactly our bikes could overheat, especially since the unique boxer design allows equal convection cooling, even at standstill. I decided to look at the microfiche and saw that there's an oil cooler pipe that runs the vertical length of the engine block as shown below:

View attachment 6108 View attachment 6109

My hunch is that BMW isn't 100% confident in their small oil radiator design for such as massive 1.8L engine that they designed themselves a way to add additional oil coolers as either technical updates (TU's) or even possible class-action recalls?

Here's my logic, hear me out: Volkswagen had their air-cooled engines of similar displacement as ours for DECADES, but never did they passively cool their oil radiators. The radiators were always placed where the fan could cycle air, thus ensuring oil/engine temps would remain within spec.

Here comes BMW with a GORGEOUS 1.8l boxer engine, but decides to PASSIVELY cool the bike! This logic is great, so long as you keep the bike moving and air flowing over the radiator fins, but not so much if riding in stop and go traffic. I noted there isn't any oil jacket inside the cylinder portion, only channels which to flow oil to and from the heads. Additionally, without knowing true specs of the engine components (e.g. BTU capabilities of the radiator, PSI of oil flow, etc.,) I cannot say for certain whether or not this engine's existing radiator setup is sufficient. However, common-sense and knowledge of the world tells me that a large engine like this DEMANDS an active cooling system and/or a larger radiator and/or multiple radiators for extreme hot and/or extended stopped periods of running.

Moleculo, I think you just exposed one of the R18's achilles' heels....😬

Mike
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see post #21
 
R18C said:
see post #21
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Right. But the R18's oil cooler is passive, not active like the VW engine example I gave. It's only effective so long as the bike is moving down the road at speed. a VW engine is being cooled even while stopped, courtesy of the engine fan and cowl setup.

Point being here is that these are MASSIVE engines, and IMO, in extreme heat or start-stop conditions, a passive radiator with no active fan blowing the heat away is a recipe for disaster. BMW was so eager to show off the chrome-plated front engine cover that the essential engine cooler took a literal step down just so everyone could "ooh" and "aah" over it. While I'm not disagreeing with their decision (it truly IS a work of art!), BMW could have maybe put a couple more smaller radiators in other locations to help supplement BTU dissipation in non-Bavarian climates (e.g. hot).

Even eyeballing the radiator, it looks physically small for an engine that displaces 1.8 liters. I've swapped several vehicle transmission radiators that were coolant-cooled to independent air-cooled radiators before, so while I'm no expert at eyeballing BTU output, I *could* see BMW upgrading this component in the future as real-world feedback is received. That was the point of my post 🤷‍♂️

Mike
 
Sir,
Don't want to argue with you.Your thoughts are yours and (not to be rude or flame) you are entitled to your belief,hunches and eyeballing.

The German engineers designed the oil cooler.The oiling system carries at least 50 lbs of pressure to the cooler so it is constantly moving oil thru the cooler.
The cooler is huge by my eyeballing;) looks about the same size as my Indian 116 (1901cc oil/air cooled).The Indian will cook my right leg sitting in traffic and I need to keep her moving.Common sense here,LOL!I have never had the Indian overheat or go into limp mode and does not have the rear cylinder deactivation(2017) But she is tuned.
My R18 runs much cooler and I would recommend the BrenTune which helps from my expierence.Lastly,the boxer design is really remarkable.Probablly the best air/oil cooled engine manufactured.


I started a post/pole to help if folks are experiencing limp mode or overheating issues.If there enough negatives maybe you can pursue the issue.

I'm kinda done so this will be my last response.
Best regards,TK
 
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