R18 Classic front end hopping vibration

[R18_DK]

Hello.
I’m a proud new owner of a brand new R18 Classic in Sweden.
My bike now has about 200km (125miles) on the clock.

From the very beginning I could sense an odd up-down hopping vibration at about 60km/h (38mph) mostly felt at the front. Below and above this speed it is not really felt.

Upon inspection I noticed that none of my wheels seemed to have balancing weights on them. The bike has the Michelin commander tires.
So naturally I asked my BMW dealer to look into it.
They have had the bike for a few days and have now balanced first the front, then the rear and even tried a new tire in the front. I noticed however, they only placed weights on one side of the rim, I always placed them evenly on both sides myself on other bikes.

The result unfortunately is that the same hopping vibration is pretty much unchanged. The dealer said it wasn’t all gone but I could test and see how it was before the run-in service.

I asked them to check the rim when the tire was off, and it seems true but when I asked if the offset was symmetrical to both sides I’m unsure they thought of that.

Sorry for the long rant, but does anyone here have any ideas or experience with a similar issue with an R18 or another bike?

Kind regards
Andreas

 

[Rufus]

Morning,
My bike has one weight on one side of the front spokes too so I wouldn’t be concerned about that and I noted on a few of my last Honda rides they too had no weights on. I assumed it was down to higher quality tyres and general construction because none had any issues so I quickly forgot about it. My R18 is silky smooth no wheel vibrations. Sounds like your dealer is doing the right thing trouble shooting it but it is a shame you are having to faff about with your new bike. 38mph isn’t fast and the wheel won’t be spinning that quickly. Just a thought….was your bike stood around a long time (on its side stand) before you bought it? I’m thinking flat spot. Was the replacement front tyre taken off another showroom bike they had in? That could be flat spotted too? These are heavy bikes. You may find it clears up with just a bit of use. I store mine over winter on a scissor stand to take the weight off the tyres for that very reason. Good luck anyway.

 

[R18_DK]

Hi. Thanks for your comments and suggestions.
It’s reassuring that you have weights on just one side as well.
They said the new tire they tested was new so I assume it was a new and not before fitted tire, but I can’t be sure.
Yes my bike was parked in the show room for almost a year. I got a good price and purchased it just before new year.
I have then parked it on a bespoke Kern-Stabi bike stand for the R18 waiting for spring.
I left the rear wheel off the ground but I left the front wheel resting on the ground (I didn’t want to risk twisting anything on the frame with 4 resting points). I moved the bike and rotated the front wheel every 2 weeks or thereabouts.
It does seem to vibrate somewhat less now but it’s not gone.
Hopefully it’s the tires that getting seated better or smoothing out rather than my senses just numbing. Fingers crossed.

 

[Rufus]

Hi. Thanks for your comments and suggestions.
It’s reassuring that you have weights on just one side as well.
They said the new tire they tested was new so I assume it was a new and not before fitted tire, but I can’t be sure.
Yes my bike was parked in the show room for almost a year. I got a good price and purchased it just before new year.
I have then parked it on a bespoke Kern-Stabi bike stand for the R18 waiting for spring.
I left the rear wheel off the ground but I left the front wheel resting on the ground (I didn’t want to risk twisting anything on the frame with 4 resting points). I moved the bike and rotated the front wheel every 2 weeks or thereabouts.
It does seem to vibrate somewhat less now but it’s not gone.
Hopefully it’s the tires that getting seated better or smoothing out rather than my senses just numbing. Fingers crossed.

Did you resolve this? Been a couple of months…..all good now?

 

[R18_DK]

Hi. Thanks for the concern
No unfortunately it is far from solved.
It appears it was the rear wheel/tire is my best guess at least.
My dealer claims everything is sound and true with regards to the rim and as a result of them not knowing what to do they suddenly claim that this wobbling hopping is normal for this bike and simply because of the large motor. When I ask why it wobbles when switching the engine off he has no answer and shrugs his shoulders.
So naturally I am disappointed and also not confident in my dealers abilities and knowledge.
Long story short, a new Michelin commander 3 touring tire was then mounted. This didn’t solve it, in fact the hopping wobble was now even more pronounced and my dealer wants nothing more to do with it.
BMW Sweden is now involved and another BMW dealer is involved in the warranty claim as well. They saw a 3mm deviation (height wise in the middle) in the rear tire, this tire appears to be mounted correctly otherwise and this is also a new tire.
It’s a sad situation, would have loved to be riding around wobble-free.
The wobble is severe and nothing I could or should have to live with. I tried another R18 classic at the dealer and this wobble was not there so I don’t think the problem is in my head .

 

[Rufus]

That’s a shame and no doubt exasperating too. My bike does thud, kick, vibrate a lot depending upon what I’m doing but never in a way that I would identify as ‘worrisome’ or annoying, in other words a fault. At slow speeds like that I would probably be running around in 3rd or possibly 4th depending upon the exact circumstances keeping the engine in its sweet spot on a very light throttle (rock mode). Vibes negligible.

TBH now I come to think of it I actually choose the gear to consciously ‘manage’ the vibes on this bike, not something I’ve had to do before really. If I give it a big handful and rev it really hard its like being strapped to a road drill and not that pleasant (for long anyway!). Lots of modern bikes can be sanitized to the point of blandness so I find it engaging and rewarding not a chore but I can see that it could be equally annoying though. Example, I don’t use 6th unless I get onto a motorway above 60mph because the revs are so low. You’re not lugging it are you? Maybe try to identify the exact circumstances when you feel it’s at its worst and most noticeable and then have a fellow R18 owner ride it and replicate, see what they think and share notes afterwards .

 

[Adrian R]

I have an 21 R18C. No wobbles here...It vibrates, in rock mode, but that's normal. *Wobbling* leads me to believe it shimmies laterally with respect to forward movement? Or, is it just bouncing up and down?

 

[R18_DK]

Thank you all for your interest.

My problem is not at all with the engine vibrations, I really enjoy that part and character of the bike and it’s one of the reasons why I always leave it in “Rock” and I even fill it with 98 octane which at least to me makes it shake even more at idle and react more forcefully .

I don’t think I tend to lug it but nor do I run it at particularly high revs. I run it dynamically and varied and with ‘mechanical sympathy’ .

The issue I have with the bike is a very pronounced bouncing up and down felt in the seat from about 50km/h and up to about 90km/h after which it transitions into a vibration.

It appears when the bikes has been allowed to settle at a given speed for 15s or more e.g. if the cruise control is applied at say 75km/h and the road is smooth, flat and you’re not turning etc., so just going straight, smooth road and constant speed not accelerating or decelerating.
The chosen gear and rpm make no difference as long as it doesn’t cause violent engine vibrations at the same time (these vibrations could then mask the bouncing).

I have tested to turn of the engine de-clutched from say 75km/h under these conditions and it will coast and bounce the same way until the speed is too slow.

If the rim really is faultless, round and straight then the problem could be with the tire. The new tire on the rim has a 3mm run out vertically and appears at the same time to seat evenly.
It seems as if many HD riders are having problems with the Michelin C3, often complaining that they tend to bounce. Maybe there’s something to that?

 

[Adrian R]

Thank you all for your interest.

My problem is not at all with the engine vibrations, I really enjoy that part and character of the bike and it’s one of the reasons why I always leave it in “Rock” and I even fill it with 98 octane which at least to me makes it shake even more at idle and react more forcefully .

I don’t think I tend to lug it but nor do I run it at particularly high revs. I run it dynamically and varied and with ‘mechanical sympathy’ .

The issue I have with the bike is a very pronounced bouncing up and down felt in the seat from about 50km/h and up to about 90km/h after which it transitions into a vibration.

It appears when the bikes has been allowed to settle at a given speed for 15s or more e.g. if the cruise control is applied at say 75km/h and the road is smooth, flat and you’re not turning etc., so just going straight, smooth road and constant speed not accelerating or decelerating.
The chosen gear and rpm make no difference as long as it doesn’t cause violent engine vibrations at the same time (these vibrations could then mask the bouncing).

I have tested to turn of the engine de-clutched from say 75km/h under these conditions and it will coast and bounce the same way until the speed is too slow.

If the rim really is faultless, round and straight then the problem could be with the tire. The new tire on the rim has a 3mm run out vertically and appears at the same time to seat evenly.
It seems as if many HD riders are having problems with the Michelin C3, often complaining that they tend to bounce. Maybe there’s something to that?

Has to be the tire(s)..based on what you've described. Not thrilled with the C3s on my bike...although I don't have the problems you are experiencing. Take it to a different dealer and have them check it out. It sounds obvious.

 

[emgarciax]

Just did my first ‘long’ ride, a 130 miles ride and no out of the ordinary vibrations. My R 18 C has Michelin Commander III Touring tires.
Much better handling than my last Harley, which was a 2007 Street Glide. For reference, my previous ride was a 2018 R 1200 GS.
Other non subject related note:
Fuel used on the 120 miles was 2.8 gallons, 42 mpg. Granted 100 of those miles were 65-80 mph highway.

 

[Rufus]

I had a ST1100 Pan European once that had a horrible front wheel/ handlebar shake that came on a few seconds after taking your hands off the handlebars say coasting to a stop. Both tyres F&R were matching brand and of correct size/profile with reasonable tread and no obvious defects. I couldn’t understand it. Like you I hit the owner forums and it was a rare but known issue so I did what was recommended and changed both tyres to a new set (Bridgestone Battlax I think from memory not that it helps here) BUT the issue went away completely. Bike ran as smooth as glass thereafter, arrow straight, hands off. Night and day. Your MC3’s are brand new and not everyone is having any problems but from your detailed explanation I can only think it has to be the tyres.

 

[R18_DK]

It just seems strange that the new C3 tire also demonstrated the same issue, and actually even more so.
My wheel is now with another BMW dealer and they’re contacting BMW higher up to learn what the tolerances are for tire run out and so on.
In one way or another I think I want to change both tires for a different brand.
Any suggestions? It seems Dunlop has a lot of experience with this type and tire dimension, but the only version available to me in Europe will have “Harley Davidson” written on the side and that seems wrong here.
So I’m considering Continental Contitours? Has anyone had these tires?
Kind regards

 

[Adrian R]

It just seems strange that the new C3 tire also demonstrated the same issue, and actually even more so.
My wheel is now with another BMW dealer and they’re contacting BMW higher up to learn what the tolerances are for tire run out and so on.
In one way or another I think I want to change both tires for a different brand.
Any suggestions? It seems Dunlop has a lot of experience with this type and tire dimension, but the only version available to me in Europe will have “Harley Davidson” written on the side and that seems wrong here.
So I’m considering Continental Contitours? Has anyone had these tires?
Kind regards

Pirelli..luv them.

 

[Rufus]

Take it your Classic runs tubes? I have Bridgestone H50’s as OE tyres and like them. Think they are very similar to Bridgestone Exedra tyres that HD uses on their big twins. How come you can’t buy the tyres you want then? Import restrictions?

 

[burangs]

I’m going to just throw this out here since you have a Classic. I once had a late model Triumph Bonneville that had a similar, perhaps not a “bounce,” but certainly an unsettled feel to it. It turned out to be the steering dampener in the early throws of failing as it started to seize up. It was remarkable what an influence such a small component had on the entire bike. Can you move the handlebars from lock to lock smoothly without any perceived notchiness?

 

[R18_DK]

No I’m not restricted in buying tires other than what is available in the European market. But I feel I shouldn’t have too at least out of my own pocket as the bike is new and so on. But if all else fails, that could be what I need to do.
I haven’t felt any notchy steering at all, lock to lock. But it was a good thought, never thought of that.

 

[BobW]

Thank you all for your interest.

My problem is not at all with the engine vibrations, I really enjoy that part and character of the bike and it’s one of the reasons why I always leave it in “Rock” and I even fill it with 98 octane which at least to me makes it shake even more at idle and react more forcefully .

I don’t think I tend to lug it but nor do I run it at particularly high revs. I run it dynamically and varied and with ‘mechanical sympathy’ .

The issue I have with the bike is a very pronounced bouncing up and down felt in the seat from about 50km/h and up to about 90km/h after which it transitions into a vibration.

It appears when the bikes has been allowed to settle at a given speed for 15s or more e.g. if the cruise control is applied at say 75km/h and the road is smooth, flat and you’re not turning etc., so just going straight, smooth road and constant speed not accelerating or decelerating.
The chosen gear and rpm make no difference as long as it doesn’t cause violent engine vibrations at the same time (these vibrations could then mask the bouncing).

I have tested to turn of the engine de-clutched from say 75km/h under these conditions and it will coast and bounce the same way until the speed is too slow.

If the rim really is faultless, round and straight then the problem could be with the tire. The new tire on the rim has a 3mm run out vertically and appears at the same time to seat evenly.
It seems as if many HD riders are having problems with the Michelin C3, often complaining that they tend to bounce. Maybe there’s something to that?

Excellent job with the way you assessed and articulated the problem, even a dealer should be able to understand the problem and successfully explain your situation in a request a new tire(s). A couple of riders on the forum posted about odd/premature wear on their new R18s equipped with these Michelins and their dealers had no problem getting Michelin to send replacement tires.

My Classic is well into a second front Michelin and still on the original rear at +/- 15,000 miles. There are so many variables as to tire wear patterns and longevity so I can't comment as to how many useful miles other riders might expect to see from them, but for me they have worn well with regular "peg scraping" on twisty roads, many miles of easy touring, 1000 +/- miles of heavy rain and even of few miles of gravel roads that were a mix of good hard pack to loose, but not deep "marbles".

I've run a bunch of Michelin tires over many "generations" in Adventure, Sport Touring and Cruiser-Touring carcasses and have had good results, but I'm happy to try other Brands too and while some give me subjectively better feedback than others they all have been excellent tires (except some several generations older Dunlops that were slicker than cat poo in the wet). I often buy the top Brand tire that is on a good sale, but in this case I would hold out for Michelin and your shop to get this sorted as once you start replacing things they will easily wash their hands of it as you "altered" things.

Best of luck and hope things are made right without delay

 

[R18_DK]

Excellent job with the way you assessed and articulated the problem, even a dealer should be able to understand the problem and successfully explain your situation in a request a new tire(s). A couple of riders on the forum posted about odd/premature wear on their new R18s equipped with these Michelins and their dealers had no problem getting Michelin to send replacement tires.

My Classic is well into a second front Michelin and still on the original rear at +/- 15,000 miles. There are so many variables as to tire wear patterns and longevity so I can't comment as to how many useful miles other riders might expect to see from them, but for me they have worn well with regular "peg scraping" on twisty roads, many miles of easy touring, 1000 +/- miles of heavy rain and even of few miles of gravel roads that were a mix of good hard pack to loose, but not deep "marbles".

I've run a bunch of Michelin tires over many "generations" in Adventure, Sport Touring and Cruiser-Touring carcasses and have had good results, but I'm happy to try other Brands too and while some give me subjectively better feedback than others they all have been excellent tires (except some several generations older Dunlops that were slicker than cat poo in the wet). I often buy the top Brand tire that is on a good sale, but in this case I would hold out for Michelin and your shop to get this sorted as once you start replacing things they will easily wash their hands of it as you "altered" things.

Best of luck and hope things are made right without delay

Thanks BobW

 

[R18_DK]

So I have an update in my case.
Long story short, after quite a few phone calls and patience, I now have a new Bridgestone H50r as my back tire and I’m extremely happy to report that the bounce is now completely gone.
Judging by eye when I now rotate the wheel there is only at most a 0,5mm run out.
I can however now feel a slight wobble from the front and in any case I would like the tires to be a matching pair, so a Bridgestone front will be my next request.
In my case the problem therefore seemed to be caused by the Commander 3 tire.

 

[BobW]

So I have an update in my case.
Long story short, after quite a few phone calls and patience, I now have a new Bridgestone H50r as my back tire and I’m extremely happy to report that the bounce is now completely gone.
Judging by eye when I now rotate the wheel there is only at most a 0,5mm run out.
I can however now feel a slight wobble from the front and in any case I would like the tires to be a matching pair, so a Bridgestone front will be my next request.
In my case the problem therefore seemed to be caused by the Commander 3 tire.

Thanks for the update!