R18 vs Harley

[BobW]

The 2024 CVO Street/Road Glides feature fully up-to-date tech, upside-down forks, axially mounted front brake calipers, variable valve timing and a range of other improvements and tweaks trickling down from Bagger Racing, as well as electric windshields, brilliant lighting, etc. The regular ones are not far behind. We cannot blame H-D if we cannot afford CVOs. Ducati recently did a limited run of Diavels complementing a Bentley Model, selling between £46K and £71K. They sold out just over one month. Kramer regularly sells limited jacked-up KTM runs direct online for top dollar - they are generally all gone in one day. Russian Box-39 does spectacular Customs generally starting at $100K - they cannot build them fast enough, despite sanctions. There are a lot of people out there with lots of spare change.

I get your point, but I’m not sure the relevance as to “apples to apples” within reasonable comparisons being made. I’m not mad at any OEM regardless their model(s) price point or intended audience and one should expect “all that and more” for any bike at almost 2X the money regardless OEM for these types of offerings. A BMW “M” version compared to the regular S bikes is similar and almost every OEM has done the same. Bottom line is buy what one likes and can afford and competition has made this a great time to enjoy motorcycling with so many incredible offerings to choose from. The “little people” sales keep the lights on and make payroll and that applies to BMW, Ducati and even Harley. They need revenue streams that these Bling models don’t provide. MV, Buell and Motus come to mind and only KTM’s last infusion is keeping MV above ground.

Cheers

 

[estoma]

I get your point, but I’m not sure the relevance as to “apples to apples” within reasonable comparisons being made. I’m not mad at any OEM regardless their model(s) price point or intended audience and one should expect “all that and more” for any bike at almost 2X the money regardless OEM for these types of offerings. A BMW “M” version compared to the regular S bikes is similar and almost every OEM has done the same. Bottom line is buy what one likes and can afford and competition has made this a great time to enjoy motorcycling with so many incredible offerings to choose from. The “little people” sales keep the lights on and make payroll and that applies to BMW, Ducati and even Harley. They need revenue streams that these Bling models don’t provide. MV, Buell and Motus come to mind and only KTM’s last infusion is keeping MV above ground.

Cheers

Touché. Those limited runs, like racing results, buy headlines, admiration and recognition. And pull (first world) little people into the showrooms.

MV, Buell and Motus are textbook examples that good engineers often s4ck in business. I own two Buells, a 2006 XB12Ss and a 2008 XB12S, as well as two EBRs; a 2014 SX and 2015 RX. So, you could probably say that I am an Eric Buell fan. MV and Motus are somewhat above my reach. But I am lucky enough to own three Ducatis too - the notable L-twins (in my opinion); a Desmodue (Monster 1100 Evo), a Testastretta (Xdiavel 1260 S) and a Superquadro (Panigale 1199 R). Aspire cheaper and enjoy more (-:

As well as they perform, Ducati still very much depends on the Lamborghini > Audi > Volkswagen purse. Nothing wrong with that, Bugatti, Porsche, and Bentley will attest too.

 

[BobW]

@estoma very nice collection!! Not so much “touché’” as everything you said I agree is accurate so perhaps just a little more of “the fine print” buried in the press releases.

I’m a big EB fan and always wondered what could have been if HD had even halfheartedly required Dealers to do a decent sales and support effort.

I grew up riding in another “Golden age” of motorcycles in the mid 60s and having worked in a couple bike shops it allowed me to own and enjoy many current Brands (some brought back from the dead) and sadly all too many that are no longer with us. That said and as great as the choices were then, the actual performance and quality of today’s bikes is incredible and just blows them away. It’s a great era for motorcycling!

Cheers

 

[beantownbt]

I have ridden with dry periods and after 14 spell bought a 2009 R1200RT. My 5th BMW after a triumph in the late 60s. I never thought much about u turns till doing them
on my 2023 R 18 Classic. Still getting that right. It is a longer bike than I have ever ridden. Being short(5.4 now) and 71, the R1200RT even with the shortest seat was at best both balls of my feet.
A traveling nurse I was hosting this year rolled in with a HD Heritage Classic and once I sat on it, I was going to be able to do the same and looked at a used 2022 Transcontnental.
I really decided to not want the extra 150 pounds. His Harley was very nice looking. The BMW was a jewel however. Plus financing was at .7% anf they paid 250$ of the first four
payments.

My hands are fine but the hydraulic clutch did make a difference and Harley dropped them on the newer Heritage Classic..

Got a pinion rack and a tank rack and my list has a more comfortable seat in it. But I never get tired of it beauty.

500 CC triumph daytona, R60/5, R90/5, K100, R60/5, R1200RT, R 18

 

[Alex-B]

I am 57. Learned to ride at 55. Only bike has been an R18 first edition

Love it and thinking of upgrading to 2025 roctane

I keep getting advice to get a Harley - road king, Electra glide…I like touring with a cruiser look (hence the Roctane)

Anyone who has ridden both R18 and HD - what’s the big deal with HD.

I have limited life now and don’t want to miss some magical HD experience but I am guessing it’s mostly talk…anything SUBSTANTIALLY better about an HD experience? I know each bike has strengths and weaknesses but am I missing something by sticking with BMW?

I suspect the experience will differ vastly depending on your location and the sort of riding you do however, Road King Special over an R18 Roctane all day long imo especially if you’re going to use it for its intended purpose.

I tend to ride solo and don’t get involved with HOG chapter rides but if that is your bag you may well enjoy the group ride outs and activities etc. Having previously worked at a HD dealership, I know this is a big thing for some owners.

It’s possible to make many changes to a HD to suit your taste, requirements or style which adds to the ownership experience imo. I changed little things on my R18 and R18B but there was only limited parts available and I can’t see this changing any time soon whereas there are many manufacturers producing parts to fit HD as well as the extensive selection of manufacturer parts/ accessories.

Again, probably location dependent but certainly here in the UK, the majority of non bikers like HD’s and will stop to admire/ ask questions or even let you through traffic which gives a feel good factor.

Test ride both and see what you think, if you’re likely to change bikes reasonably often, the resale value of the HD will be much better. Lack of which certainly tarnished the R18 ownership experience for me.

 

[Pork Rind]

I suspect the experience will differ vastly depending on your location and the sort of riding you do however, Road King Special over an R18 Roctane all day long imo especially if you’re going to use it for its intended purpose.

I tend to ride solo and don’t get involved with HOG chapter rides but if that is your bag you may well enjoy the group ride outs and activities etc. Having previously worked at a HD dealership, I know this is a big thing for some owners.

It’s possible to make many changes to a HD to suit your taste, requirements or style which adds to the ownership experience imo. I changed little things on my R18 and R18B but there was only limited parts available and I can’t see this changing any time soon whereas there are many manufacturers producing parts to fit HD as well as the extensive selection of manufacturer parts/ accessories.

Again, probably location dependent but certainly here in the UK, the majority of non bikers like HD’s and will stop to admire/ ask questions or even let you through traffic which gives a feel good factor.

Test ride both and see what you think, if you’re likely to change bikes reasonably often, the resale value of the HD will be much better. Lack of which certainly tarnished the R18 ownership experience for me.

I suppose it varies from model to model in the BMW lineup. Here in the USA, the used market for R-18's and pricing is very very soft, with sellers taking a huge hit in private market prices or dealership trade in prices. It's exactly the opposite for R-1200 and R1250 GS and GSA models, and probably also true for the new 2024 R 1300 GS and GSA models.

I almost always try to buy a used 1 to 2 year old motorcycle. In 2023, there were lots of 2021 and 2022 R18 B's and TC's for sale, low prices, Black and Manhattan Green.

There were even more R1250 GS and GSA's for sale.... the GS prices, used, were substantially more expensive than the R-18's. So expensive, in fact, that I was better off just buying a brand new unmolested 2023 R1250 GS Trophy fully loaded, than a used one that had been beat to sh*t on a summer trip up to Alaska with a group of A personality bike riders / former MX or off road desert racers, with a lot of hard miles on it in it's early life.

Still will probably someday get a R-18B, but the HD Sport Glide needs to go, first. Suspension wise, the Showa stuff on my Sport Glide is mediocre compared to the R18 B and TC suspension packages. I find the ride quality difference very noticeable. The HD wins in low down torque delivery with it's long stroke motor design. The power delivery system will always pulsate on a HD. Not so much on the R-18's I still think BMW should put hydraulic lifters and counterbalance cranks on the R-18 series, this is the 21st century already, we are well into such mechanical technological advances.

Will also tell you the R series BMW's are real garage and parking space hogs, as well as here in CA, it requires much more care and clearance to lane filter between stopped cars. I just don't do lane splitting any more. Not when other cars are moving. It's OK at stop signs or stop lights when cars are stopped, distance between cars permitting.

YMMV, these are just my formative opinions. Splitting or filtering is probably not legal where you ride, if outside of CA.

 

[Mr. Efficiency]

I am 57. Learned to ride at 55. Only bike has been an R18 first edition

Love it and thinking of upgrading to 2025 roctane

I keep getting advice to get a Harley - road king, Electra glide…I like touring with a cruiser look (hence the Roctane)

Anyone who has ridden both R18 and HD - what’s the big deal with HD.

I have limited life now and don’t want to miss some magical HD experience but I am guessing it’s mostly talk…anything SUBSTANTIALLY better about an HD experience? I know each bike has strengths and weaknesses but am I missing something by sticking with BMW?

It must be winter…
Anyway. I love all motorcycles and they all have their thing. I have ridden and owned Haley Davidson motorcycles since I was a pup. I have ridden BMW motorcycles ever since I rode a Hardtail to Los Angeles from North Carolina as a kid I ride both I love both.

The modern motorcycle market has become a bit schizophrenic. Let’s look at Harley; I remember when it used to mean something; grimy dudes rolling around on Haleys with their girlfriends looking for a good time. Their Harleys were fast and they could ride them. My last Harley Davidson was a Dyna that was blacked out completely, bored out to 124 and had a custom front and back end suspension so it could get out of its own way. And it was fast and loud and black, people didn’t like it . It was, to me a real Harley.

The R18 harkens me back to a day when BMW motorcycles looked like BMW motorcycles… and thats it. It is a gorgeous bike and fun to ride. It needs a different rear shock and fork springs right out of the box to compare with its contemporary, the demised soft tail slim (which is where BMW got their inspiration for the R18. Both retrocycles but plain and simple, the soft tail doesn’t look as good but can kick its butt every other way… including reliability (my R18 has been unreliable). But the R18 is gorgeous and a bottomless pit of torque.

Every bike does its own thing, you cannot compare apples and oranges. A Harley bagger tourer… I have no idea why guys buy R18 fared baggers. I really don’t. The Harley is simply better in every way. I don’t ride BMW motorcycles because I want to ride my Harley :-0. My real BMW is a GS that has 125,000 miles on it and can mop the floor with anything the motor company makes . My R18, I bought because I wanted a naked, raw motorcycle that reminds when BMW made elegant naked, raw motorcycles.

Now customer experience, forget it. BMW has a tiny network of dealers some of whom are real crooks. It’s hit or miss. If you have a serious problem BMW of North America will disavow all knowledge of you. Harley won’t do that, they will bend over backwards to make you happy. Because they reap profit, simply, from being Harley and they know it. BMW has changed and not for the better; they put a lot of unvested iron out there now and don’t want to fix it when it breaks. Simply, I may buy another Harley some day but I would not take another BMW for free.

On the other hand, if your bike isn’t defective, it will probably be a good bike. The R18 is a funny bike, I really did buy it because I wanted a Black pinstriped retro BMW and don’t feel like sleeping with a Clymer manual under my pillow. Other than that, I can’t imagine why somebody would want one BMW makes the GS, and the S1000R… and if you are buying one of those… you are buying a BMW built to do what BMW does. You buy a Harley to do what Harley does. The two compare in now way as products.

 

[tngarren]

Recently got my salvage project '21 R18 Classic (sans windscreen and panniers) on the road. Compared to my '22 H-D Low Rider from a cruiser perspective only.

Where the Low Rider is better - Torque & power curve, weight, low speed handling, 3rd party parts, smoothness across a broader power band

Where the R18 is better - Fit & finish, OEM sound, rider triangle, engine feel 1800-2600

The R18 is better than the sum of its parts. The beautiful styling, huge cylinders, shake, and uniqueness make it a pleasure to ride. IMO the R18 is the better cruiser. I hope BMW does not give up on the R18.

 

[Noelpolar]

The R18 is a funny bike, I really did buy it because I wanted a Black pinstriped retro BMW and don’t feel like sleeping with a Clymer manual under my pillow.

Haha.... I can relate to that..... probally about 30% of my original desire.

 

[Pork Rind]

It must be winter…
Anyway. I love all motorcycles and they all have their thing. I have ridden and owned Haley Davidson motorcycles since I was a pup. I have ridden BMW motorcycles ever since I rode a Hardtail to Los Angeles from North Carolina as a kid I ride both I love both.

The modern motorcycle market has become a bit schizophrenic. Let’s look at Harley; I remember when it used to mean something; grimy dudes rolling around on Haleys with their girlfriends looking for a good time. Their Harleys were fast and they could ride them. My last Harley Davidson was a Dyna that was blacked out completely, bored out to 124 and had a custom front and back end suspension so it could get out of its own way. And it was fast and loud and black, people didn’t like it . It was, to me a real Harley.

BMW makes the GS, and the S1000R… and if you are buying one of those… you are buying a BMW built to do what BMW does. You buy a Harley to do what Harley does. The two compare in now way as products.

So you won't ever be buying a Pan America? I have my GS and my RT, and for now, don't miss my Sport Glide or the Pan America, at all. Love HD so much, I bought stock in them just so I could vote the current Board of Directors out, get some new blood in there before HD goes belly up again. Motorcycles, for me, are fun. What they are not, is a Life Style. I don't get the "Bruuuuuuther" mentality of most HD folks, all dressed in black leather, inked up, and ZZ Top beards.

 

[Mr. Efficiency]

So you won't ever be buying a Pan America? I have my GS and my RT, and for now, don't miss my Sport Glide or the Pan America, at all. Love HD so much, I bought stock in them just so I could vote the current Board of Directors out, get some new blood in there before HD goes belly up again. Motorcycles, for me, are fun. What they are not, is a Life Style. I don't get the "Bruuuuuuther" mentality of most HD folks, all dressed in black leather, inked up, and ZZ Top beards.

Well, I would like a Pan America. I have owned every iteration of the GS… My favorites were the R80 P/D and my R100 P/D. The Pan America is more like the earlier P/D models and I have test ridden one. Plain and simple, performance wise it can kick the snot out of a GS. Lighter faster cheaper and less electronic gimcracks on it that can break. If I were buying an ADV bike tomorrow, well… it would probably be the Honda Africa Twin but if I found a low mileage Pan America Id snatch it up. The 1250/1300 and such GSes have become caricatures of themselves. There is just too much that can break on one. Now the R12 G/S…. That might be right up my alley… but I can buy a Pan America for less as well.

 

[tngarren]

What they are not, is a Life Style. I don't get the "Bruuuuuuther" mentality of most HD folks, all dressed in black leather, inked up, and ZZ Top beards.

So true. I like H-D but the biker culture that was once an attraction is now a turn off. Let me add loud pipes, loud sound systems, obnoxious throttle revving. Unfortunately, H-D is in a bad place.

 

[Mr. Efficiency]

So true. I like H-D but the biker culture that was once an attraction is now a turn off. Let me add loud pipes, loud sound systems, obnoxious throttle revving. Unfortunately, H-D is in a bad place.

I love my Harley, I love my BMWs, love my Triumph.

 

[TheOldProfessor]

I've ridden for 55+ years, over 20 bikes, all one at a time. I've had the R18B for about 10 months now. I rode a Harley Street Glide the 6 years before that; and before the Harley, a long string of Japanese bikes.

Comparing the Harley with the Beemer:

Harley
--more comfortable, hands down. I love the laid back riding position.
--1000s more aftermarket parts.
--extensive dealer network (in the USA)

R19B
--low center of gravity, feels more stable at highway speed.
--flawless fit and finish.
--Great gas mileage, 45-50 mpg consistently
--here in the USA, the R18B is unique. There's a Harley on every street, but the Beemer is an eye catcher.
--You can get an R18B for about $8-10k less than a similar Street Glide.

To me, power and performance are very similar. I had no Reliability problems with either. I loved my Harley, and so far, I love my Beemer. Before I turn 80, I may have to try out a Goldwing.