Start issues with a vertical storage

[PaulP]

R18C, 3-4K miles.

Engine starts only after second attempt since i purchased Condor 1500 wheel chock and started storing bike straight/vertically.

I tried to leave it overnight on a kickstand/reclined and next day no issues starting it with one turn. Left it in a wheel chock again last night and today it starts only after second attempt again.
I plan to test it couple more times but i already see a pattern...

Any thoughts what might cause this?

 

[VARG]

I've observed the same behavior periodically but have always parked my bike on the side stand unless being serviced so my suspicion steered me towards fuel choice. I notice my R18s, 5k/6k, start better with some brands of gasoline than others, battery charge can be a factor too if it's depleted. For instance, my R18s generally start even when cold with a healthy snort after just a couple turns when I use Valero but usually tend to take longer, not fire as hot, and sometimes take a couple attempts starting cold with other brands. I do see some variation even within a brand. I always use 93 unless I get caught out in the boonies.

 

[Deleted member 1344]

I park my R18TC kickstand on a 1.5" x 5.5" x 6" wooden board. BMW has always liked extra lean on the side stand. With my board the bike is easy to swing a leg over and be vertical with no effort. Starts on first blip but have to remember to brace left leg.

 

[BobW]

Is it possible you are quicker to hit the start button or with a different duration/full pressure on it when she is already upright than when she is on the side stand and/or turning her over prior to a "full gauge sweep" has been completed? For me when I usually start her I hit the power button and watch the display wake up and then lift her off the stand, back out onto the driveway and then hit the starter button. A lot of sensor secret handshakes happen in that brief period to include pressurizing fuel injection, reading air temp and making sure the ignition is ready to join them for a perfect "menage a trios". I can understand subtle differences in fresh fuel v. stale or contaminated, but with modern fuel injection and ignition systems there is no reason it should take a consistent different numbers of attempts to start the engine in any "normal" position. Not saying a mechanical cause isn't possible, but first I would take note of the human variables while repeating the start up comparisons. There are other factors that don't sound like they would apply to your scenario such as valves badly out of adjustment, ecu stored adaptives , etc., but if it becomes really troublesome I would do a service to eliminate any questions in those areas.

 

[pbosik]

The not starting on 1st try is known, also not starting 1st time when the engine is hot. BrenTune will fix this...go to their website ( brentunemoto) the video of the tune results, mention this issue. I can't see how, vertical parking causes anything...

 

[PaulP]

The not starting on 1st try is known, also not starting 1st time when the engine is hot. BrenTune will fix this...go to their website ( brentunemoto) the video of the tune results, mention this issue. I can't see how, vertical parking causes anything...

Already tuned.

It never happened before and occurs only after i leave it vertical overnight. I'll keep on digging and update the forum with my findings.

 

[AV8OR]

During the season mine is on its stock kick stand. I always retract my stand and start the machine upright soon afterwards, and after the built-in-test stuff has happened on the speedo. The start is near instant, and still startling in its robustness. (Those two opposed jam cans really shake for a micro-monent). Mind, my machine is so new it has only had a couple of fuel top ups and it has not yet even been for the break-in service. I have started it once whilst still on its stand to see what would happen to the steering bars - I just wanted to visually see how they twitched. Started instantly. This may not help much but the post has raised an interesting point!

 

[nielsm]

My R18 Classic is parked in a Condor wheel chock & always starts on first try. I always hit the power button & wait for full sweep to complete (and fuel pump to cycle) before pushing the starter button. Never had it different hot or cold.

I could see if one engaged the starter before the fuel pump had cycled it may not start on first go, perhaps thats what is happening to OP?

 

[PaulP]

I've observed the same behavior periodically but have always parked my bike on the side stand unless being serviced so my suspicion steered me towards fuel choice. I notice my R18s, 5k/6k, start better with some brands of gasoline than others, battery charge can be a factor too if it's depleted. For instance, my R18s generally start even when cold with a healthy snort after just a couple turns when I use Valero but usually tend to take longer, not fire as hot, and sometimes take a couple attempts starting cold with other brands. I do see some variation even within a brand. I always use 93 unless I get caught out in the boonies.

And the winner is...

Just two more days of testing but at this point I believe the issue is with gasoline.

I used Mobil last two tanks- no issues with cold start.

 

[AV8OR]

And the winner is...

Just two more days of testing but at this point I believe the issue is with gasoline.

I used Mobil last two tanks- no issues with cold start.

Ahhh, the possible fuel link is interesting. Glad to hear you seem to have rectified the little glitch. At the risk of a minor thread drift... FWIW I have a nice German built car as well (not a bimmer) and in response to my question, my dealer recommends Shell brand gasoline as the manufacturer believes their standards are among the highest. Presently, with the increasing and alarmingly high price of gas, we fill up at Costco when every we can because it is a significant savings on premium fuel. When I am out of range of a Costco I attempt to use Shell.

 

[0x0000000e76]

My R18 Classic is parked in a Condor wheel chock & always starts on first try. I always hit the power button & wait for full sweep to complete (and fuel pump to cycle) before pushing the starter button. Never had it different hot or cold.

I could see if one engaged the starter before the fuel pump had cycled it may not start on first go, perhaps thats what is happening to OP?

Mind sharing pics/experience of the chock? I just got one, but I am not sure about it. Feels wobbly? Sorry I am hj the thread.

 

[nielsm]

Mind sharing pics/experience of the chock? I just got one, but I am not sure about it. Feels wobbly? Sorry I am hj the thread.

Here is mine in the Condor when I first got it in December. Haven't had any issues with it. I guess it could be more secure if the stand was bolted to the floor. I like having the ability to move the stand if needed, since I've got 4 other bikes in the garage.

The first few times you use it, it will feel a bit weird. 3 of my 5 bikes have a center stand, so I'm used to putting on side stand and then moving to center stand. Going direct into wheel chock does require a bit of confidence in the stand, but it is so solidly built, I've got no qualms about it. If you don't ride straight in, it can feel weird as part of the bike will be leaning. If that happens I will just reposition it. I do think if you ensure the sizing is correct it will be more secure, so measure the wheel & the manual suggestions for which bolt hole to use.

Incidentally the bike visible just behind the R18 tank is a S1000R on a pair of Pitbull stands. While the rear stand is fairly straightforward as it uses the bobbins on the swing arm, the front is more of a balancing act on the bottom of the front fork. That was far less confidence inspiring than the Condor is.

 

[0x0000000e76]

View attachment 5824
Here is mine in the Condor when I first got it in December. Haven't had any issues with it. I guess it could be more secure if the stand was bolted to the floor. I like having the ability to move the stand if needed, since I've got 4 other bikes in the garage.

The first few times you use it, it will feel a bit weird. 3 of my 5 bikes have a center stand, so I'm used to putting on side stand and then moving to center stand. Going direct into wheel chock does require a bit of confidence in the stand, but it is so solidly built, I've got no qualms about it. If you don't ride straight in, it can feel weird as part of the bike will be leaning. If that happens I will just reposition it. I do think if you ensure the sizing is correct it will be more secure, so measure the wheel & the manual suggestions for which bolt hole to use.

Incidentally the bike visible just behind the R18 tank is a S1000R on a pair of Pitbull stands. While the rear stand is fairly straightforward as it uses the bobbins on the swing arm, the front is more of a balancing act on the bottom of the front fork. That was far less confidence inspiring than the Condor is.

thanks!

 

[Moby_1851]

A bunch of threads in the forum address the same problem. My 2021 takes 2 hits of the starter anytime I've had the engine shut down for roughly 1.5 to 2 hours or more. Started at about 2500 miles and has gotten progressively more consistent (now at 4K). I've tried parking uphill, downhill, interrupting the electric ignition start-up cycle, giving it extra time after hitting the ignition, hitting the ignition on/off/on, gas octane changes and brand changes, new battery, trickle charger...it (so far) always fires up on the 2nd try - so I suppose it's not really a problem, but it's annoying as hell...

 

[Ulrich]

My R18 Classic is parked in a Condor wheel chock & always starts on first try. I always hit the power button & wait for full sweep to complete (and fuel pump to cycle) before pushing the starter button. Never had it different hot or cold.

I could see if one engaged the starter before the fuel pump had cycled it may not start on first go, perhaps thats what is happening to OP?

Same here .. although I don't park her in a wheel chock (only when I work on her) ... but I let her do a full speedo sweep and then push the button ... very few non-starts ... maybe a handful a year.

 

[Rufus]

This is something that I’ve encountered very rarely on a number of my bikes. Like many the conclusions I’ve reached are 1) I suspect petrol quality and it’s ‘freshness’ 2) battery health and 3) giving the bike enough time to do its wake up sweeps. My bike is always parked in a vertical stand btw. So I fill up with Esso Super Unleaded (that forecourt is nearest to me anyway), use a CanBus Optimate 4 and wait till the sweep is well done, touch wood R18 so far is first time every time

 

[Noelpolar]

A bunch of threads in the forum address the same problem. My 2021 takes 2 hits of the starter anytime I've had the engine shut down for roughly 1.5 to 2 hours or more. Started at about 2500 miles and has gotten progressively more consistent (now at 4K). I've tried parking uphill, downhill, interrupting the electric ignition start-up cycle, giving it extra time after hitting the ignition, hitting the ignition on/off/on, gas octane changes and brand changes, new battery, trickle charger...it (so far) always fires up on the 2nd try - so I suppose it's not really a problem, but it's annoying as hell...

I would buy a 2nd bike and park it next to it.... it should see the writing on the wall and pull it's head in.

If this brillant idea doesn't work.... then no real loss.... as you have a second bike to console yourself with.