David R
Well-known member
Just like the rest of my BMW. Ohlins make it better.Nice.
And what does it tell you when a guy can mess around in his garage and come up with something better than what was delivered from the factory?
David
Suspension Question
- Thread starter OceanBreeze
- Start date
David
Ahhh... that it is a bike that keeps on giving..... the R nine t and R18 bikes share that trait.... and.... give me truth and facts over stories any day.... though.... I'm begining to think these days that "truth and fact" are just delusions of the human condition.Nice.
And what does it tell you when a guy can mess around in his garage and come up with something better than what was delivered from the factory?
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Sounds to me like you de-progressed it.....
evomind
Active member
Im glad you found something that works for ya.
nielsm
Well-known member
This is the challenge of the internet & different riders. What they focus on is different. I tried a bunch of cruisers from Harley & Indian and the R18. I found the R18 had the best ride of all of them. But, my focus was on how well the suspension felt going around corners. The Harleys were the worst, it felt like the frame was made of spaghetti, actually scary to me. Indian was better, but the suspension still felt too soft. The R18 felt confident in corners like it was made to be ridden, not just lazily moved slowly down the road.
The R18 only has 3.5-4.5” of rear travel depending on your model, but weighs ~800lbs. You can’t have both soft feeling and sharp handling in small travel with a heavy bike. My GSA is nearly 9” of travel, but also 250lbs lighter than my R18 Classic. I just finished a BDR with my GSA on Monday…. It could absorb lots of the bumps in the “road” because it had plenty of travel, but it can also handle well as the tuning can be firmer. I still bottomed it out going too fast on some really rough roads, so you can always adjust to the road conditions.
A cruiser will always be a compromise as they have low seat height & thus small suspension travel and they weigh a lot due to big motors & lots of metal. You can then tune for absorbing bumps or being able to turn, but not both due to the travel & weight limits. Personally, I favor ability to turn over bump compliance on any bike I own. I chose the R18 because of the suspension quality over Harley & Indian.
evomind
Active member
I agree pretty much with all you say, more or less.
I didnt touch on handling so much as what we were talking about was more ride quality.
The Harley IS the worst of the bunch but thats by design. They will be happy to sell you a custom made Ohlins that is fully adjustable which totally transforms the bike.
Its expensive.
The Indian Springfield had a great ride while being a better handling bike than my Road Glide Special.
I think Indian nailed it for balance on a big cruiser bike.
The R18 is a better handler by virtue of having a shorter wheel base and weighing about 100 pounds less.
Now when you change the parameters and say that you feel it handles better because of the suspension and you can take corners more aggressively, well maybe thats true.
The less weight and shorter wheel base has a lot to do with that.
Bottom line, Ive said it before and Ill say it again, if it works well for you then thats all that matters.
Its just not a very sophisticated suspension, no debate there.
Careful with mid corner bumps.
I didnt touch on handling so much as what we were talking about was more ride quality.
The Harley IS the worst of the bunch but thats by design. They will be happy to sell you a custom made Ohlins that is fully adjustable which totally transforms the bike.
Its expensive.
The Indian Springfield had a great ride while being a better handling bike than my Road Glide Special.
I think Indian nailed it for balance on a big cruiser bike.
The R18 is a better handler by virtue of having a shorter wheel base and weighing about 100 pounds less.
Now when you change the parameters and say that you feel it handles better because of the suspension and you can take corners more aggressively, well maybe thats true.
The less weight and shorter wheel base has a lot to do with that.
Bottom line, Ive said it before and Ill say it again, if it works well for you then thats all that matters.
Its just not a very sophisticated suspension, no debate there.
Careful with mid corner bumps.
nielsm
Well-known member
To me the definition of "best or worst riding" is overall experience. Bump compliance, handling, dive under braking, etc. I agree firmer suspension won't have the same bump compliance as softer, but that is but one aspect of overall ride experience.I agree pretty much with all you say, more or less.
I didnt touch on handling so much as what we were talking about was more ride quality.
The Harley IS the worst of the bunch but thats by design. They will be happy to sell you a custom made Ohlins that is fully adjustable which totally transforms the bike.
Its expensive.
The Indian Springfield had a great ride while being a better handling bike than my Road Glide Special.
I think Indian nailed it for balance on a big cruiser bike.
The R18 is a better handler by virtue of having a shorter wheel base and weighing about 100 pounds less.
Now when you change the parameters and say that you feel it handles better because of the suspension and you can take corners more aggressively, well maybe thats true.
The less weight and shorter wheel base has a lot to do with that.
Bottom line, Ive said it before and Ill say it again, if it works well for you then thats all that matters.
Its just not a very sophisticated suspension, no debate there.
Careful with mid corner bumps.
These were the bikes I tried:
Naked bikes
Model | Weight | Wheelbase | Notes
R18 Classic | 805lb | 68.1". | Soft saddlebags
Indian Vintage | 836lb | 67.0". | Soft saddlebags
Harley Road King | 807lb | 64.0". | Hard saddlebags, no windshield
Indian Springfield | 829lb. | 67.0" | Hard saddlebags
In "naked" bikes, the BMW is the longest wheelbase, not shorter. Weight is within 31lbs, the full fenders on the Springfield & Vintage do add some weight to it relative to the R18, but considering the Road King has hard bags & is only 2 pounds heavier shows the R18 isn't that lightweight. If you look at the Springfield Dark horse which has fenders closer to the R18, it's actually ~15lbs lighter than the R18 Classic but comes with hard bags, but no windshield.
Fairing bikes
Model | Weight | Wheelbase | Notes
R18 B | 877lb | 66.7". | Fork mounted fairing
Indian Chieftain | 823lb | 65.7". | Fork mounted fairing
Harley Street Glide | 829lb | 64.0" | Fork mounted fairing
Harley Road Glide | 855lbs. | 64.0". | Frame mounted fairing
In fork mounted fairing bikes, the BMW is the longest wheelbase & heaviest.
BMW is at a disadvantage to handling given the longer wheelbase in both groups & is the heaviest in the fairing bikes as well. If the suspension was so terrible, why does it handle so much better given the wheelbase & weight (fairing) disadvantages? I don't think the suspension in the R18 is bad at all. It may not be tuned as soft as you prefer for bump compliance, but clearly given the wheelbase disadvantage something is working really well with the suspension for overall riding experience, especially in handling.
Which bikes are you comparing where the BMW is shorter wheelbase & lighter by 100lbs?
evomind
Active member
I may have been mistaken on wheel base as I thought RoadGlides and Springfields had longer wheel bases.
Those bikes are north of 850 lbs, I believe my 100yr edition is 730 or 740?
The main point I was making is that more sophisticated suspensions are much more than just hard or soft and everything in between.
Same with sports cars.
More sophisticated suspensions will do more than go from "stiff to soft."
Much more.
High end suspensions are firm without being jarring, meaning they dont bounce you out of the seat. They absorb bumps and imperfections without being "soft."
But we love the R18 for many other attributes.
Those bikes are north of 850 lbs, I believe my 100yr edition is 730 or 740?
The main point I was making is that more sophisticated suspensions are much more than just hard or soft and everything in between.
Same with sports cars.
More sophisticated suspensions will do more than go from "stiff to soft."
Much more.
High end suspensions are firm without being jarring, meaning they dont bounce you out of the seat. They absorb bumps and imperfections without being "soft."
But we love the R18 for many other attributes.
nielsm
Well-known member
But your 100yr edition is also a Pure.... no bags or windshield, so we should compare like for like. Maybe something like a fat boy, but that is still shorter wheelbase & lighter than the Pure.
While the R18 suspension is firmer than any of the other bikes I tried, I've never felt it jarring, let alone being bounced out of the seat. I did set the preload to my riding weight & tweak based on any baggage being carried. So maybe that is part of it. I do the same with the suspension on my S1000R. Others who have not set the preload do find it much harsher, maybe that is happening to you?
evomind
Active member
Sure, it must be.
evomind
Active member
Sigh.
Again, I never said it handled the worst.
You brought handling in.
I only commented on RIDE QUALITY.
I have said the R18 is the best handling bagger/cruiser bike Ive ridden.
Big difference between handling and ride quality.
Ok, Im done,
Everything else you say is absolutely correct under any circumstances and all instances.