Tube or Tubeless

[Calboy]

Good luck sealing spokes. I hope nothing bad happens to you.
What if a spoke or two break and you need to replace them?
Take the tires off and repeat the process?
Save up some bucks and buy the cast wheels. Problem solved! And they look awesome. Nothing to be ashamed of.
There are a lot of guys that spent thousands and thousands of dollars buying all kind of aftermarket parts and pieces, to "transform" these already beautiful bikes, yet when it comes to things that matter they go cheap.
I just can't understand that "philosophy".
My two cents...

 

[estoma]

Good luck sealing spokes. I hope nothing bad happens to you.
What if a spoke or two break and you need to replace them?
Take the tires off and repeat the process?
Save up some bucks and buy the cast wheels. Problem solved! And they look awesome. Nothing to be ashamed of.
There are a lot of guys that spent thousands and thousands of dollars buying all kind of aftermarket parts and pieces, to "transform" these already beautiful bikes, yet when it comes to things that matter they go cheap.
I just can't understand that "philosophy".
My two cents...

Thanks. I've got physics on my side sealing the spokes - the air pressure inside the wheel. And I could even go cheaper, buying the component parts on amazon.com (e.g.,

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WVNWNA4/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

), but Outex® is an engineered and complete solution with a solid track record. So, let's tick that box next to 'lazy' as well (-:

Chances are good that I will need to replace the rim/wheel if I break a spoke or two. I have owned at least one bike with laced wheels at a time, all the time since 1972, and have respoked several wheels through the years - always as a full re-lace, either replacing corroded spokes and/or a corroded/damaged/improved rim.

Horses for courses. If I wanted a Chief with cast wheels, I could have bought the Springfield instead of the Vintage, an R18B instead of the R18, and a Street Glide Special (FLHXS) instead of an Electra Glide Revival (FLH).

I have also been told off for fitting fancy plastic (BST® carbon fibre) wheels on three of my sports bikes instead of forged magnesium. Each to their own, we say.

 

[Calboy]

But of course you can do what you feel like doing. I never said don't do it!
Different strokes for different folks, we say...

 

[rem47]

I will fit an R18C front wheel on my R18, and it simply looks better, IMHO. The rims and tyres on the R18 and R18C are tubeless, albeit fitted with tubes (since the spokes are not sealed).

The rear wheel on R18 and R18C is a 16 x 5.0, for which you need Outex® Part No. R50 - tape width = 64 mm. It is, in fact, intended for 17/18 x 4.5/6.0 rims, meaning you will have more than enough material.

The 19 x 3.5 R18 front wheel requires Outex® Part No. FR3535 (labelled 17 x 3.5) - tape width = 42 mm. There is sufficient material to cover the 19" rim - Woody's will confirm that when you place the order.

The 16 x 3.0 R18C front wheel requires Outex® Part No. FR21214 (labelled 21 x 2.15) - tape width = 34 mm. Again, plenty of material.

If the kit sizes seem counterintuitive, it is because selecting the proper tape width for each particular rim profile is the most crucial criterion. Contact Woody's, and they will see you sorted:

http://[URL]https://woodyswheelworks.com/products/outex-tubeless-kit

[/URL].

Nice wheels!. Thanks that is just the information I needed, and I have not been put off by alternative views on Outex. I have committed to buy a R19C and the conversion will be the first modification I try.

I did ask the question of Woody as he lists only one kit for the R18 which has the 42mm for front which he says will work on the R18C. I have also been in touch with Outex Japan and there are two options of 34mm and 37mm for 3" rims. I might cover both possibilities and buy one of each, unless you think the 34 will give sufficient coverage and that 37 will be too hard to try to stretch it up the side walls.

 

[rem47]

Good luck sealing spokes. I hope nothing bad happens to you.
What if a spoke or two break and you need to replace them?
Take the tires off and repeat the process?
Save up some bucks and buy the cast wheels. Problem solved! And they look awesome. Nothing to be ashamed of.
There are a lot of guys that spent thousands and thousands of dollars buying all kind of aftermarket parts and pieces, to "transform" these already beautiful bikes, yet when it comes to things that matter they go cheap.
I just can't understand that "philosophy".
My two cents...

For new comers like myself we could easily be put off trying a perfectly valid method, tried and tested by many, to improve the safetly of the bike for added insurance. To me for BMW to put tubes on these bikes so they can use retro spoked wheels is like offering a new retro styled car without seatbelts or airbags. I have never had a blow out on a tubed tyre, nor have I ever in 40 years of driving been in a car that has deployed the airbags or seatbelets have been tested, the risk is low, even so I would not buy a car without them now and I wont run on tubed tyres particularly with such a heavy bike. My budget is stretched already, and I dont have the means to spend thousands on replacement wheels. I would not want others in futre reading this thread to hear your perception of risk unchallenged or that spending thousands was actually needed to eliminate the risk.

Estoma has alrady said physics in on his/our side. The pneumatic integrity of a tubeless wheel and tyre is not a function of weight as you have suggested, I would have thought it was a functoin of pressure, at least while it is operating normally. The R18 at 360kg runs the same tyre pressures as my Ducati at 220kg so it is not like it needs to run at massive tyre pressures for the weight that might somehow compromise the fabric of a tubeless conversion. The weight could come into play if you do have a puncture with a tube as I am guessing the tyre could deflate much more quickly from 40psi on a 360kg bike than a 220kg bike. In my estimation all the more reason to go tubeless on the R18.

Yes Outex is only a piece of tape - two actually - that is making the seal and providing mechanical strength. But it is also only a piece of thin rubber in the tubed alternative - are they so different.

In the UK there is a company that does two different tubeless systems https://www.central-wheel.co.uk/services/tubeless-conversions.html ATS being their own, and BARTubelss being Italian, they also install Outex. I might go with one of these "prefessional"conversions as the guy there Paul who does the conversions does say he was getting about a 30% failure with Outex - not catatrophic just loss of pressure over days. Both these other systesm lay down a polymer or compound which has some thickness. He mentioned needing 6mm and so it only works with certain rim wells, otherwise it beomes impossible to mount the tyre. I sent him some photos of the R18C rims from outside, and at this point he is not optimistic that the profile will allow these two systems. But difficult to tell without seeing the inside profile. He says there is a long lead time as they are so busy with the tubeless conversions. [Edit confirmed ATS and BARTubeless cannot be used on R18 spoked rims]

The facts are that the R18 and R18C both come with tubeless tyres (OEM) and have MT type rims with the safety bead that are used on tubeless tyres, but they have tubes installed. These features may mean that a blowout is not as catastrophic as with tube type wheels and rims - BUT I DONT KNOW FOR SURE for those who are happy to run on tubes in this bike. What is does mean is that the wheels are correctly specified for a tubeless conversion by sealing the spokes in some way.

If I have to go down the Outex route or the DIY route, the only risk that I see is that I dont get a seal at the first attempt and have to do it again - this is the only bad thing that could happen as a consequence. Worst case is the tyre does not stay inflated for more than a few minutes and cant be ridden at all. Absolute worst case is I have to put a tube back in and sell the bike. More likely there will be a slow leak so I will get a tyre pressure monitoring device, which is probably a good idea in any case. This is an acceptable risk for me, and suits my budget, I am going cheap but I am not cutting corners in the sense that this is no less safe than expensive replacement tubeless wheels.

My twopence worth...

 

[Frenchie]

I had a rear puncture at 100 kph in the middle lane with 32 wheelers all around me. I was amazed how 'stable' the bike was and I was 1km from home I managed to limp home.

The wait for the inner tube is another story I posted on here.

 

[estoma]

Nice wheels!. Thanks that is just the information I needed, and I have not been put off by alternative views on Outex. I have committed to buy a R19C and the conversion will be the first modification I try.

I did ask the question of Woody as he lists only one kit for the R18 which has the 42mm for front which he says will work on the R18C. I have also been in touch with Outex Japan and there are two options of 34mm and 37mm for 3" rims. I might cover both possibilities and buy one of each, unless you think the 34 will give sufficient coverage and that 37 will be too hard to try to stretch it up the side walls.

You raised a very good point here. Woody supplied me with 42mm for the 19 x 3.5 front wheel and 34mm for the 16 x 3.0 version. I have already purchased the 16 x 3.0 rim - same as fitted on your Classic. So, I had a look and I think that I will be fitting the 42mm kit on the 16 x 3.0 front wheel - even 37mm might turn out to be a tad too narrow when fitting it, although the standard rubber band measures 31.5mm (1-1/4"). BMW does a peculiar concave rim well and every 3rd & 4th spoke nut and their associated cutouts protrude quite a bit. Here are some photos:

 

[estoma]

For new comers like myself we could easily be put off trying a perfectly valid method, tried and tested by many, to improve the safetly of the bike for added insurance. To me for BMW to put tubes on these bikes so they can use retro spoked wheels is like offering a new retro styled car without seatbelts or airbags. I have never had a blow out on a tubed tyre, nor have I ever in 40 years of driving been in a car that has deployed the airbags or seatbelets have been tested, the risk is low, even so I would not buy a car without them now and I wont run on tubed tyres particularly with such a heavy bike. My budget is stretched already, and I dont have the means to spend thousands on replacement wheels. I would not want others in futre reading this thread to hear your perception of risk unchallenged or that spending thousands was actually needed to eliminate the risk.

Estoma has alrady said physics in on his/our side. The pneumatic integrity of a tubeless wheel and tyre is not a function of weight as you have suggested, I would have thought it was a functoin of pressure, at least while it is operating normally. The R18 at 360kg runs the same tyre pressures as my Ducati at 220kg so it is not like it needs to run at massive tyre pressures for the weight that might somehow compromise the fabric of a tubeless conversion. The weight could come into play if you do have a puncture with a tube as I am guessing the tyre could deflate much more quickly from 40psi on a 360kg bike than a 220kg bike. In my estimation all the more reason to go tubeless on the R18.

Yes Outex is only a piece of tape - two actually - that is making the seal and providing mechanical strength. But it is also only a piece of thin rubber in the tubed alternative - are they so different.

In the UK there is a company that does two different tubeless systems https://www.central-wheel.co.uk/services/tubeless-conversions.html ATS being their own, and BARTubelss being Italian, they also install Outex. I might go with one of these "prefessional"conversions as the guy there Paul who does the conversions does say he was getting about a 30% failure with Outex - not catatrophic just loss of pressure over days. Both these other systesm lay down a polymer or compound which has some thickness. He mentioned needing 6mm and so it only works with certain rim wells, otherwise it beomes impossible to mount the tyre. I sent him some photos of the R18C rims from outside, and at this point he is not optimistic that the profile will allow these two systems. But difficult to tell without seeing the inside profile. He says there is a long lead time as they are so busy with the tubeless conversions.

The facts are that the R18 and R18C both come with tubeless tyres (OEM) and have MT type rims with the safety bead that are used on tubeless tyres, but they have tubes installed. These features may mean that a blowout is not as catastrophic as with tube type wheels and rims - BUT I DONT KNOW FOR SURE for those who are happy to run on tubes in this bike. What is does mean is that the wheels are correctly specified for a tubeless conversion by sealing the spokes in some way.

If I have to go down the Outex route or the DIY route, the only risk that I see is that I dont get a seal at the first attempt and have to do it again - this is the only bad thing that could happen as a consequence. Worst case is the tyre does not stay inflated for more than a few minutes and cant be ridden at all. Absolute worst case is I have to put a tube back in and sell the bike. More likely there will be a slow leak so I will get a tyre pressure monitoring device, which is probably a good idea in any case. This is an acceptable risk for me, and suits my budget, I am going cheap but I am not cutting corners in the sense that this is no less safe than expensive replacement tubeless wheels.

My twopence worth...

I've experienced almost zero leakage on my Indian's wheels thus far, and it's been more than six years already since I fitted Outex kits on it. The 30% failure rate quoted might apply to older weathered rims which inevitably feature nicks and small, corroded pits that might prove hard to seal. And it is imperative that the rims are absolutely clean before applying the double-sided tape, especially around the spoke nuts. It is also very important to do trial installations, using some other tape of the correct width, prior to fitting the double-sided tape - in order to get your stride. The Outex double-sided tape is extremely sticky. There are no second chances if you lay it skew or crease it - you cannot get it off without stretching, touching and ultimately ruining it. Not for the faint-hearted or unorganized. And make sure that you do not drip sweat all over your job (-;

 

[estoma]

I had a rear puncture at 100 kph in the middle lane with 32 wheelers all around me. I was amazed how 'stable' the bike was and I was 1km from home I managed to limp home.

The wait for the inner tube is another story I posted on here.

There is a rubber band, loosely fitted on the rims, that will prevent air rapidly exiting past the spokes, on condition that it was not disturbed when fitting new tires. Kind of touch-and-go OEM Blowout Assurance.

 

[rem47]

You raised a very good point here. Woody supplied me with 42mm for the 19 x 3.5 front wheel and 34mm for the 16 x 3.0 version. I have already purchased the 16 x 3.0 rim - same as fitted on your Classic. So, I had a look and I think that I will be fitting the 42mm kit on the 16 x 3.0 front wheel - even 37mm might turn out to be a tad too narrow when fitting it, although the standard rubber band measures 31.5mm (1-1/4"). BMW does a peculiar concave rim well and every 3rd & 4th spoke nut and their associated cutouts protrude quite a bit. Here are some photos:




View attachment 9574

Thanks your photos are very helpful. Those cutouts make the 42mm look like the best width as you say. I assume the technique is to apply the centre of the tape to the well centre first, and since a smaller diameter it means the tape has to be stretched to lay flat against the sides. I can see it will be very tricky to do. The profle of the rim I feel sure will rule out the other tubeless convertions that I was considering.

Will you grind the protruding spoke nipples at all? It would ease the tape application. The question is would it significantly compromise the wheel if you only grind into the torx recess? Subsequent spoke tightneing would potentially break through the tape.

Picking up my Classic tomorrow.

 

[estoma]

Thanks your photos are very helpful. Those cutouts make the 42mm look like the best width as you say. I assume the technique is to apply the centre of the tape to the well centre first, and since a smaller diameter it means the tape has to be stretched to lay flat against the sides. I can see it will be very tricky to do. The profle of the rim I feel sure will rule out the other tubeless convertions that I was considering.

Will you grind the protruding spoke nipples at all? It would ease the tape application. The question is would it significantly compromise the wheel if you only grind into the torx recess? Subsequent spoke tightneing would potentially break through the tape.

Picking up my Classic tomorrow.

Agreed. This will not be an easy installation. I am thinking of using a soft ball to roll the double-sided tape in. Definitely a two-person job; ball in one hand, rolling the tape in, with the other hand feeding the tape. The second person rolling the wheel. Similar to applying pin stripes to rims - also a two-person job. Again - practice, practice, practice.

I will not grind the spoke nipples. The double-sided tape is actually quite pliable and should easily stretch over the protrusions. The translucent tape, applied over the double-sided tape is less pliable but should nevertheless still flex enough. The air pressure will do the rest. The hard part is to work all the air bubbles out.

Congrats with that new Classic. I spend about as much time fiddling on my bikes as I do, riding them.

 

[rem47]

My wheels are off and now unshod. Preping them for the Outex tubeless conversion. Which involved first washing with lots of detergent, then acetone to clean off residue from the inner tubes, then more washing. What I noticed was the water was beading as a result of some hydrophobic coating, also that the paint in places seemed to have fine ridges almost like brush strokes. So I sanded the well with 800 then 1200 grit wet and dry.

The front wheel has an unfortunate part number etched right beside one of the more critical spoke nipple recesses. I sanded this down using 240 grit wet and dry then up through 400 to 1200.

The end result is what I think is a very smooth surface for adhesion, and which has no hydorphobic coat which to me says oil or wax. In the photos you can see the difference after sanding the well but not the tyre bead seat.

I took the opportuity to tighten 4 spokes, I was surprised at how loose the spoke nipples are, difficult to measure but I would say less than 10Nm for the tight ones, the lowest my torque wrench goes, dont kow what they should be. The wheels are off an 18 month old bike with 3300 mls.

Spent about three hours so far. Will give a final clean with 99% alcohol and heating the rim and maybe a vaccum of the recesses before applying tape.

part number where the tape edge will be - prime candidate for a leak.


Mostly sanded off

No beading in the well

 

[rem47]

Another three hours prep, marking guidelines for the tape edges, grinding two out of every four spoke nipples, the ones that protrude by about 4.5mm, reducing them by a couple of mm to the same height as the others only on the front wheel. I used an angle grinder in the end as my Dremel gave up the ghost, and more sanding.

I thought I would report on the completion of the rear wheel Outex install. Using kit R50 for 17x4.5MT~5.5MT 64mm tape width.

Things to be aware of:

The x-sectional profile of the rim well is not symetrical (rear rim only).
The valve stem hole is offset from the nominal centreline of the spokes (rear rim only).
The pre-cut hole for the valve stem in the protective tape is in the centre.

I made the assumption that the sealing tape should be centred on the nominal centreline of the spokes - so there is even coverage on either side of the spoke recesses. practicing with some 3M tape which had some pliability lead me to believe that the difference in the profile would not be a problem stretching the tape to accommodate a difference in shoulder diameter left and right. I was wrong!

The Outex tape is like a sheet of very sticky rubbery gel, it is very plable and stretchy. It requires a backing tape which serves two purposes: the first is you can supply it on a roll and apply pressure when installing; the second is to stop the gel from stretching as you apply it. It is this latter property that causes a problem with an assymetric rim profile. You cant keep it running straight between your marker lines. It runs off to one side very quickly and there is no give in it to correct it.

I laid down two marker lines centred on the spokes, which means that one edge of the tape has to follow a different diameter to the other. With hindsight, an alternative might have been to offsett the tape so it was in a symmetrical part of the profile, as there would still be sufficient cover on the narrower side.

With the guidance for mOutex saying that there is sufficient tape to be able to make future repairs, I decided to cut the sealing tape at locations where the spokes are furthest appart (another irregularity of the rims) when it had gone too far off course, and then start again, with a gap between the two ends. I had to make about 5 cuts in all. I then cut a strip of sealing tape, removed a backing tape from either side of the break, and patched the gap. With hindsight, it might have been better to have removed the backing tape a few cms at a time or whenever you needed to make an adjustment.

Fortunately before all this I decided to see whether the end of the protective tape,a s determined by the position of the pre-cut valve stem hole, would fall between two spokes, and cut it so that it did. What I then realised was that with the valve stem hole not being central to the centreline of the spokes, the protective tape would be offset 3-4mm from the sealing tape. So I punched a new hole slighty to the side of the pre-cut hole, so the tapes would line up. With hindsight, and plenty of spare protective tape on the roll, I should have cut the holed section off and punched a new hole.

After removing the backing tape from all the sections and patches of the sealing tape, I applied the protective tape. Much to my relief, this tape does stretch, so will correct for the assymetric profile. So got round in one and covering the double layer of sealing tape at all the joins.

My tyre shop fitted the tyre an hour later, with 50psi. No obvious leaks. But I will report back in a few days.

I thought the rear wheel would be easy! I am not looking forward to doing the front. Was going to do a video, but as two pairs of hands were needed, the other half objected.

 

[rem47]

Agreed. This will not be an easy installation. I am thinking of using a soft ball to roll the double-sided tape in. Definitely a two-person job; ball in one hand, rolling the tape in, with the other hand feeding the tape. The second person rolling the wheel. Similar to applying pin stripes to rims - also a two-person job. Again - practice, practice, practice.

I will not grind the spoke nipples. The double-sided tape is actually quite pliable and should easily stretch over the protrusions. The translucent tape, applied over the double-sided tape is less pliable but should nevertheless still flex enough. The air pressure will do the rest. The hard part is to work all the air bubbles out.

Congrats with that new Classic. I spend about as much time fiddling on my bikes as I do, riding them.

Have you done your front wheel yet? I tried laying down the 42mm tape in just a short section and found it to be too difficult. With my experience of the rear wheel and having to cut the sealing tape every 6-8 spokes, I decided to apply the same principle to the front wheel.

As you know the front rim has two adjacent spoke recesses that go half way up the side of the well, meaning that even if you can lay the 42mm tape down perfectly you only have at best 4-5mm of seal to the tape edge. Thats if you can lay it down evenly, which I think is impossible.

Every two spokes is a large gap of 20mm, what I have done is to cut the sealing tape into 60mm pieces which are easy to apply, and you can stagger them, so that those two difficult spokes can have close to 10mm to the tape edge, without going onto the safety ridge. At each cut location there is also 10mm from the cut edge to the nearest spoke recess. The only place you cant adopt this pattern is around the valve stem hole, this is where I applied tape over 6 spokes (you could do four, but it depends on where you want to position the join in the protective tape, and whether you want a join in both at the same location).

It is much easier to press out any air bubbles between the sealing tape and rim, and you get far fewer.

It goes against the advice, but I really think these BMW wheels are too difficult to apply the sealing tape in a single piece. Once you accept the principle that a cut is OK, there is no real reason why you cant have a lot of cuts, provided there is a good gap between spokes which there is on both wheels.

I layed the protective tape as one piece and punched my own valve stem hole so that the join falls in a wide gap.

I have just had the tyre mounted, and the pressure is holding. Sadly my rear tyre did not hold pressure, but it was due to an error that I guessed might leak and it did. I have another R50 kit, and will try to remove just a portion either side of the leak, and apply the same principles as above, but I will have two overlap patches of protective tape at each new join (the secion that I replace includes the original patch.

The only downside that I can see is that because I staggered the 60mm pieces, there is a strip of sealing tape that is not covered by the protection tape, and a strip pf proetection tape that does not have adhesion. Again with hindsight I could have cut and applied thin pieces of sealing tape to give some adhesion to the protection tape where there was none, to solve one of those issues at least.

Hope this makes sense .

Staggered cut sections give more coverage to problematic spoke recesses


Backing tape removed, make sure any air bubble has no path to edge or spoke recess, easily seen when backing layer removed, just lay a piece of backing tape over a bubble and work it with an implement, easy to remove and no loss of adhesion


Protective tape applied as one piece with a join. Work out air bubbles between protective tape and selaing tape, so no pathway for presurised air to reach nipple recesses


Oops!, leaka from just one spoke, have to redo the rear wheel. Not a failure of the Outex, rather an installation error.

 

[rem47]

My front wheel Outex tubeless conversion was successful with the first attempt.

For the rear wheel, I removed a section of the taped rim either side of the leak, and applied Outex from a new kit on just this section. Mounted the tyre and too my dismay discovered a leak from a spoke on the section that had shown no leak at the first attempt. I spray soapy water onto all the nipples and there was definitely only one leak first time. I dont understand how the leak appeared in the seemingly good area second time round.

Again with my spare kit I removed about half a wheel's worth of the original tape, and used what was left of my spare kit, and applied to this section. I have mounted the tyre again and there are no obvioius leaks using the soapy water spray test, and the pressure seems to be holding. [EDIT all back together and pressures holding after a test ride]

Lessons learnt: if you have never done this before it is difficult but not impossible on these spoked wheels. You should probably buy two kits for each wheel and try to get your supplier to agree to take them back if not used. Estoma has said practice,practice ,practice, but in my view there is nothing elsethat behaves like Outex to practice with - other than another Outex kit.

Dont be afraid to cut the sealing tape into lengths that reach between the large gaps between spokes (a redeming feature of these rims), it makes it much easier to apply, and I believe without any loss of sealing potential, just be sure to try to run the protectve tape all the way round in one piece, as it is more pliable and forgiving to lay down (I reinstalled the rubber flap/band on the rear wheel over the Outex as extra protection EDIT: dont do this, I have discovered that I cant get a tyre pressure reading, and I have completely removed the valve and no air comes out. I think the reason is the rubber band has moved and slipped over the valve creating a seal. I can add air, just cant measure the pressure). Remember the protective tape is to prevent 40psi of air pressure forcing the very stretchy sealing tape from being forced into the spoke nipple recesses. stretching means thinning and potentially breakage, particularly as the spoke recesses are machined and have angular edges which could cut the sealing tape. The protective tape prevents this from happening provided it adheres to the back of the sealing tape, again without too many air bubbles between the two.

It has been a trying process, these BMW R18 wheels are much more difficult than in any of the videos I have seen installing Outex. It definitely needs two pairs of hands to do the job, and you need plenty of time. I still think that even if you end up with a leak (in my case 2 out of 4 attempts), it will likely be a slow leak (24hrs to no pressure or longer). In such an outcome reinstalling the tube with the Outex in place, and putting the rubber sealing grommet from the tubeless valve onto the tube valve, so it acts in the same way to seal the valve stem hole, will result in something that behaves very much like a tubeless tyre in terms of the initial rate of deflation being dependent on the size of the puncture and not leaky spokes. It might even take a tubeless plug, and hold air enough to get you home.

 

[estoma]

My front wheel Outex tubeless conversion was successful with the first attempt.

For the rear wheel, I removed a section of the taped rim either side of the leak, and applied Outex from a new kit on just this section. Mounted the tyre and too my dismay discovered a leak from a spoke on the section that had shown no leak at the first attempt. I spray soapy water onto all the nipples and there was definitely only one leak first time. I dont understand how the leak appeared in the seemingly good area second time round.

Again with my spare kit I removed about half a wheel's worth of the original tape, and used what was left of my spare kit, and applied to this section. I have mounted the tyre again and there are no obvioius leaks using the soapy water spray test, and the pressure seems to be holding. [EDIT all back together and pressures holding after a test ride]

Lessons learnt: if you have never done this before it is difficult but not impossible on these spoked wheels. You should probably buy two kits for each wheel and try to get your supplier to agree to take them back if not used. Estoma has said practice,practice ,practice, but in my view there is nothing elsethat behaves like Outex to practice with - other than another Outex kit.

Dont be afraid to cut the sealing tape into lengths that reach between the large gaps between spokes (a redeming feature of these rims), it makes it much easier to apply, and I believe without any loss of sealing potential, just be sure to try to run the protectve tape all the way round in one piece, as it is more pliable and forgiving to lay down (I reinstalled the rubber flap/band on the rear wheel over the Outex as extra protection). Remember the protective tape is to prevent 40psi of air pressure forcing the very stretchy sealing tape from being forced into the spoke nipple recesses. stretching means thinning and potentially breakage, particularly as the spoke recesses are machined and have angular edges which could cut the sealing tape. The protective tape prevents this from happening provided it adheres to the back of the sealing tape, again without too many air bubbles between the two.

It has been a trying process, these BMW R18 wheels are much more difficult than in any of the videos I have seen installing Outex. It definitely needs two pairs of hands to do the job, and you need plenty of time. I still think that even if you end up with a leak (in my case 2 out of 4 attempts), it will likely be a slow leak (24hrs to no pressure or longer). In such an outcome reinstalling the tube with the Outex in place, and putting the rubber sealing grommet from the tubeless valve onto the tube valve, so it acts in the same way to seal the valve stem hole, will result in something that behaves very much like a tubeless tyre in terms of the initial rate of deflation being dependent on the size of the puncture and not leaky spokes. It might even take a tubeless plug, and hold air enough to get you home.

Great Job! Excellent write-up. I like the approach of cutting the double-sided tape into short sections. It will be a while still before I do mine - too many other sticks in the fire right now. And I will do the laced wheels on my FLH then as well. I will report back.