Tubed to Tubeless

[Captain Pete]

So, today I finally bit the bullet!

I couldn’t continue riding on my old front tire with good consciousness.



So off with the old and on with the new, but not before fitting the Outex kit.










It’s 35 C today and sadly my phone overheated so I lost the pictures of the Outex fit.

I used the 17 x 3MT kit and added a 90 degree valve for easy airing.

What can I usefully add to help others considering the same mod?

1. I did not grind down the spoke nipples as I was worried about weakening them.

2. I sealed the heads of the hollow nipples and around the heads of them with Sikaflex 292i and left for 24 hours to dry.

3. The 17x3 kit was fine for length, (16 inch front wheel) with about 10” spare. BUT it was a tad too narrow because of how the spoke nipples stand proud of the inside of the rim. I would advise the next size wider.

4. Due to sealing the spoke nipples, I did not apply the self adhesive dots to the nipple heads. Hoping that the spokes never need adjusting . In 40 years of on-road biking I have never had to adjust spokes.

Fitted the new Bridgestone Battlecruise H50 (I’ve done 12k Km’s on the previous one and was very happy with it). Aired to 37PSI and no leaks in the water tank.

Going to check pressure after a day or two and if no change it’s going back on the bike.

I’ll update this thread with any news as I’m curious if this is going to be a permanent solution.

Compressor & tire plug kit now carried in the bike’s tool kit!

 

[emgarciax]

Monitoring your results.

 

[Captain Pete]

It kept its pressure for three days so I re-fitted the wheel this afternoon and took the bike for a ride of about 25kms.

So far so good …

I removed the balance weights during the tire change as I’m going to add Ride On tyre sealer & balancer. I hadn’t added the Ride On prior to the test ride and was pleasantly surprised that there was no wheel vibration up to the maximum of 110kph I drove today!

 

[Keehn]

For next time, or those who've never installed tire tubes:

To reduce the risk of tube tears, use some cheap baby powder, both inside the tire and coat the tube when installing. Also, don't tighten down the schraeder valve nut until the tube is semi-inflated, so the tube isn't torqued in an unseated position.

I've learned these through experience...and some YT videos after I screwed up a couple tubes

Mike

 

[Captain Pete]

Good advice Mike, thanks!

 

[Petrus]

Also, don't tighten down the schraeder valve nut until the tube is semi-inflated, so the tube isn't torqued in an unseated position.

First hand experience based it is better practice still to not tighten the valve nut on the rim at all but use it to lock the (metal!) cap. This way it is immediately visible if the tyre has in any way shifted. Especially with so much torque as the R18 has you do not want it to rip out the valve when the tyre pressure should happen to get a bit lowish.
If worried about any dirt getting into the rim through the valve hole, fit rubber shrouds available in any off road shop.

 

[estoma]

So, today I finally bit the bullet!

I couldn’t continue riding on my old front tire with good consciousness.

View attachment 18512

So off with the old and on with the new, but not before fitting the Outex kit.

View attachment 18515

View attachment 18513


View attachment 18514



It’s 35 C today and sadly my phone overheated so I lost the pictures of the Outex fit.

I used the 17 x 3MT kit and added a 90 degree valve for easy airing.

What can I usefully add to help others considering the same mod?

1. I did not grind down the spoke nipples as I was worried about weakening them.

2. I sealed the heads of the hollow nipples and around the heads of them with Sikaflex 292i and left for 24 hours to dry.

3. The 17x3 kit was fine for length, (16 inch front wheel) with about 10” spare. BUT it was a tad too narrow because of how the spoke nipples stand proud of the inside of the rim. I would advise the next size wider.

4. Due to sealing the spoke nipples, I did not apply the self adhesive dots to the nipple heads. Hoping that the spokes never need adjusting . In 40 years of on-road biking I have never had to adjust spokes.

Fitted the new Bridgestone Battlecruise H50 (I’ve done 12k Km’s on the previous one and was very happy with it). Aired to 37PSI and no leaks in the water tank.

Going to check pressure after a day or two and if no change it’s going back on the bike.

I’ll update this thread with any news as I’m curious if this is going to be a permanent solution.

Compressor & tire plug kit now carried in the bike’s tool kit!

I tried fitting OUTEX as well - twice. I have it installed on my Indian Vintage since 2016 - no leaks: https://www.r18forums.com/threads/tube-or-tubeless.586/post-28641. I know a chap who has the same original application running on a laced-wheel Ducati for more than a decade already. Ducati forums feature countless contributors doing track days on OUTEX rims. It is a solid, proven solution.

Problem is that the concave BMW R18 rim profile (front and rear) and extreme BMW spoke nipples are not OUTEX friendly. I was nevertheless very optimistic of success at first: https://www.r18forums.com/threads/tube-or-tubeless.586/post-28957. I had it all sussed out, I thought.

I tried 3-1/2" on the front wheel first - it simply creases too much. Some creases and bubbles can be satisfactorily sorted - some cannot. I did not have a single crease on my Indian's rims by the time the applications had been completed. If it does not look right, it probably ain't right - each unsorted crease is a potential eventual (and untimely) leak. So, I ripped that off and cleaned the rim again.

I tried 3" next, initially carefully running felt-tipped-pen strips on both sides to keep the tape centered. First (double-sided) layer went on OK - it is very stretchy. The second layer was hard work - no stretch. I simply could not completely (and in my case satisfactorily) cover all spoke nipples properly. I pondered it for a day, then ripped that off and cleaned the rim again. By now I was partly p!ssed off and cursing BMW Motorrad - not the first time either.

Resolute not to be beaten by quirky engineering, I gave it some rest and ordered 2" wide 3M 1144N tape: https://www.amazon.com/3M-White-Ext.../ref=pd_lpo_d_sccl_3/145-7595389-5020434?th=1. The intent being to install two overlapping layers. I sealed all the nipple crevices with SikaFlex 11FC. Truth be told, the 3M application turned into a cluster-f4ck of note. So, within that same day I was cleaning the rim again, as well as removing compromised caulking. I doubt that there was a single German without red ears on that day, worldwide.

I have reapplied the 11FC at the nipples and two layers of duct tape around the rim. The duct tape is 'crease friendly' but I would not recommend it as a leak-free barrier over 21 psi (1.5 bar). And I am running tubes again, but now confident that I will not suffer a rapid tire blowout.

BTW: there is no way that you can fit a 90-degree valve on the rear rim. The rim is too thick - not leaving enough thread on the valve to properly seat its nut inside the (f4cking) concave rim surface. No 90-degree valves required when you use this: https://www.motionpro.com/product/08-0602.

 

[Captain Pete]

Sorry to hear of your trials and tribulations in trying to seal your wheels Estoma.
I too found the concave nature of the rim and especially the protruding spoke nipples very troublesome.
In truth, I was shocked that my wheel was holding air!
If it fails or if I had to do it again, I would not use Outex or any other type of tape. I read on a forum somewhere of a chap that just used the 3M 5200. He sealed around each spoke nipple and then cut a piece of stiff plastic to match the inner profile of the rim and used it to smear a thick & even band of it around the inside of the rim well, I think about 5 mm thick. After some time he says that it has worked perfectly.
That sounds like the best solution to me as the sealant will bond strongly and permanently to the inside of the rim with no possibility of any air getting through.

 

[emgarciax]

Thanks for sharing your experience with us. I shall remain tubed.