Is Lack of Reverse a Deal Breaker?

Adrian R said:
I'm using it more and more myself... It's really slick! Mine goes in and out of reverse perfectly....
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Mine too. Only glitch is that sometimes, when the bike is really warm, reverse doesn't work! Once bike has cooled down, everything back to normal. Only been a problem two or three times but still a bit of a mystery.
 
UK_r18_Classic said:
Isn't it funny how the r18 has shifted in the last 6 months?

Gone from couldn't give them away at the dealers, offering crazy discounts etc, to now being much more sought after.

Feels like those in the right place at the right time got some great deals!
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I surely do not know the conditions in Europe, but here in USA, the R18 is still very deeply discounted as of today.

The R18 is and will be a classic. It is sheer artwork. But I believe that most prospective people in the market for a cruiser in the USA are more attracted to the status of Harley Davidson in this cruiser segment. I do not ever see any Harleys discounted currently (except Livewire) and the used Harley market is super tight with used prices so much higher than a new R18 bike fully discounted.


Although I am happy I got mine super deep discounted ( $11,500 brand new first edition that had a $22K sticker) I feel that BMW did a huge mistake by producing so many then dumping them on the market and then having to discount them to allow dealers to move them. This was a marketing mistake IMO, but BMW might have had other reasons to do this, possibly to saturate the market in order to gain visibility amongst the public and other riders.


I believe with time the R18 will develop its own market of buyers, and the R18 will gain status over the years, and there will be true riders
( more sophisticated ) who appreciate the R18 unlike the "wanna be" fake outlaw (rebel) Harley type.

Full disclosure... I own a HD Fatboy, HD Rocker, and HD Vrod.
 
kratedisease said:
I believe with time the R18 will develop its own market of buyers, and the R18 will gain status over the years, and there will be true riders
( more sophisticated ) who appreciate the R18 unlike the "wanna be" fake outlaw (rebel) Harley type.

Full disclosure... I own a HD Fatboy, HD Rocker, and HD Vrod.
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It's a paradigm that has stopped me from buying HD for a lifetime. Well, in the beginning when I bought my first street bike, HD was still owned by AMF and as such, were total pieces of crap... I remember in the Navy, 1983...stationed in Norfolk, I was in the market for a street bike. Having owned nothing but Hondas as a kid, I naturally looked at Hondas. They had just released their new Nighthawk 650, the Magna 750, and the Shadow 750. All 3 bikes were receiving great reviews. I went to HD to see what they had in the same price range. They had a 1000cc Sportster for the same exact price of the Shadow 750. In comparison it was a total dinosaur with respect to the Shadow 750 in which was loaded with technology..i.e 3 valve ohc heads, dual carbs, offset pin crank, water cooling, hydraulic clutch, shaft drive, aluminum mag wheels....dual disc brakes on the front wheel, 6 speed tranny and wet clutch...etc., etc. There was no comparison. The Harley on the other hand was leaking oil on a piece of cardboard on the showroom floor! As to be expected I bought the Shadow, and it was a PERFECT motorcycle I kept for 14 years....it was basically flawless and was fast....for it's time... After that HD was reacquired by Willie and along came the Evo motor. HD made a huge step forward. Up until that point everyone was buying Jap bikes because HD sucked. Today they've become a sort of satirical icon of themselves... They're beautiful bikes.. The new CVO Street Glides are killer looking, but aside from being expensive, they're common, VERY common, and it's had to tell them apart...that is a new 40k model or an 8 year old 18k model...and they STILL have their issues... They're a total success story, I have to hand it to HD, they did a superb job marketing their brand, or should I say they did a great job letting the ignorant to motorcycling population in general marketing their bikes for them. Today it's a joke. 9.5 bikes out of 10 up north are HD. I could never buy into something like that. I got to have something different. My R18C and 1800cc6 cycl Valkyrie completely fill that need, plus I got a few extra pennies to throw around..
 
Adrian R said:
Today it's a joke. 9.5 bikes out of 10 up north are HD. I could never buy into something like that. I got to have something different. My R18C and 1800cc6 cycl Valkyrie completely fill that need, plus I got a few extra pennies to throw around..
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I've also grown disenchanted with some of the HD tactics of, "buy a base model and we'll gladly sell you thousands of $$ to "make it your own." I'm not a modder. My truck is stock, my Road Glide was fairly stock as was my Triumph Scrambler, my VF100r and previous toys.
$40k for a CVO is insane and the used market is ridiculous. The R18 is a unicorn that deserves the praise and the reverse is simply a nice touch and while not a deal breaker, it boils down to a level of importance. At 65, there will be (are) situations where the reverse is greatly appreciated. 30 years younger? Not so much.
 
Adrian R said:
It's a paradigm that has stopped me from buying HD for a lifetime. Well, in the beginning when I bought my first street bike, HD was still owned by AMF and as such, were total pieces of crap... I remember in the Navy, 1983...stationed in Norfolk, I was in the market for a street bike. Having owned nothing but Hondas as a kid, I naturally looked at Hondas. They had just released their new Nighthawk 650, the Magna 750, and the Shadow 750. All 3 bikes were receiving great reviews. I went to HD to see what they had in the same price range. They had a 1000cc Sportster for the same exact price of the Shadow 750. In comparison it was a total dinosaur with respect to the Shadow 750 in which was loaded with technology..i.e 3 valve ohc heads, dual carbs, offset pin crank, water cooling, hydraulic clutch, shaft drive, aluminum mag wheels....dual disc brakes on the front wheel, 6 speed tranny and wet clutch...etc., etc. There was no comparison. The Harley on the other hand was leaking oil on a piece of cardboard on the showroom floor! As to be expected I bought the Shadow, and it was a PERFECT motorcycle I kept for 14 years....it was basically flawless and was fast....for it's time... After that HD was reacquired by Willie and along came the Evo motor. HD made a huge step forward. Up until that point everyone was buying Jap bikes because HD sucked. Today they've become a sort of satirical icon of themselves... They're beautiful bikes.. The new CVO Street Glides are killer looking, but aside from being expensive, they're common, VERY common, and it's had to tell them apart...that is a new 40k model or an 8 year old 18k model...and they STILL have their issues... They're a total success story, I have to hand it to HD, they did a superb job marketing their brand, or should I say they did a great job letting the ignorant to motorcycling population in general marketing their bikes for them. Today it's a joke. 9.5 bikes out of 10 up north are HD. I could never buy into something like that. I got to have something different. My R18C and 1800cc6 cycl Valkyrie completely fill that need, plus I got a few extra pennies to throw around..
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I am NOT brand loyal in Bike brands or Car brands. I could car less who makes a bike. If I like it, I like it.

But I was never compelled to buy a Japanese Cruiser. I am a big cruiser fan, and I love retro styling. This is why I was a huge fan of Harley in the 2000's. Their springers and Heritage styled bikes, low rider and fat boy are styling Icons. I think that the VRod is Art on wheels IMO. I never liked the styling of any Japanese cruiser. I did like the Polaris Victory bikes, and hated the Indian brand before Polaris bought it and made it mainstream with their engines and engineering but very much like the Indian bikes of Today. I always admired BMW bikes but they never had a cruiser I would buy (R1200C) before the R18. The issue I have with Triumph is that most of their bikes that have beautiful styling but they have smaller engines and smaller platforms. The Rocket was and is cool, but I bought and have a Ducati Xdiavel instead to scratch that itch.

BMW hit a home run in styling and execution with the R18. It is a styling ICON for sure. The R18 is a true piece of Jewelry and rolling artwork that has more style than todays current Harley lineup and offerings like Fat Bob and the older FXR ( but not as much style as the older Harley's like the softails and springers from 10 years ago, that are still the pinnacle and gold standard in artistic design and iconic style.)

The reverse is the must have option that makes owing this icon R18 that much more cool.

I have the new C8 corvette and added the front lift on my build. I Rarely use the front lift, but when I do......Ohhhhhh so cool !! another must have option.

These are things not to need..... but must to have.......only to have for the sake of having.
 
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Cheshire Cat said:
What makes you believe the R18 is now selling in larger numbers? Just wondering as not seen any on the roads so far, with the exception of my own. Would be nice to know they are growing in popularity although I do enjoy the uniqueness that I am currently experiencing.
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It seems to be regional. I live in the northeast US & have seen a number of R18s. 15% of the bikes at a local Bikes & Breakfast event last month were R18s.

But, I’ve never seen a Harley Pan America in the wild until last week. Ironically it was when I was in a taxi from Heathrow to London on the A4.
 
kratedisease said:
I am NOT brand loyal in Bike brands or Car brands. I could car less who makes a bike. If I like it, I like it.

But I was never compelled to buy a Japanese Cruiser. I am a big cruiser fan, and I love retro styling. This is why I was a huge fan of Harley in the 2000's. Their springers and Heritage styled bikes, low rider and fat boy are styling Icons. I think that the VRod is Art on wheels IMO. I never liked the styling of any Japanese cruiser. I did like the Polaris Victory bikes, and hated the Indian brand before Polaris bought it and made it mainstream with their engines and engineering but very much like the Indian bikes of Today. I always admired BMW bikes but they never had a cruiser I would buy (R1200C) before the R18. The issue I have with Triumph is that most of their bikes that have beautiful styling but they have smaller engines and smaller platforms. The Rocket was and is cool, but I bought and have a Ducati Xdiavel instead to scratch that itch.

BMW hit a home run in styling and execution with the R18. It is a styling ICON for sure. The R18 is a true piece of Jewelry and rolling artwork that has more style than todays current Harley lineup and offerings like Fat Bob and the older FXR ( but not as much style as the older Harley's like the softails and springers from 10 years ago, that are still the pinnacle and gold standard in artistic design and iconic style.)

The reverse is the must have option that makes owing this icon R18 that much more cool.

I have the new C8 corvette and added the front lift on my build. I Rarely use the front lift, but when I do......Ohhhhhh so cool !! another must have option.

These are things not to need..... but must to have.......only to have for the sake of having.
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I’m with you on the point about Japanese cruisers. Japan in my opinion make the finest most reliable bikes around however, the cruiser market really is an American thing that is difficult to emulate. BMW get away with it to a certain extent as a result of heritage, as would Triumph.
For me I am coming to the conclusion that the reverse gear, now that I use it a lot, would be a deal breaker. That said, everything has its price and if the discount was big enough, who knows? 🤷‍♂️
 
nielsm said:
I'm sure also those great deals primed the pump a bit too. More bikes on the road, generates more visibility, which creates more interest, which leads to increased demand.

The biggest hurdle for the R18 hasn't been about the quality of the bike, but rather the awareness and willingness of people to even try it. The timing of the pandemic as well was a factor that likely reduced natural demand. I expect as more people regularly go to bike events and dealerships this will only accelerate the interest in the R18.
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Agreed !!!
 
Back in the day I took a factory tour and the specially trained ladies re did the pinstripes on my R75! It was a real treat to watch them do it. Yes, the pinstripes are done by hand and I would not have considered any vintage style BMW that is not black with white pinstripes. Because I'm old school and thats the only color they come in :). That isn't true... but it's my story and I'm sticking to it. I like my Harleys black on black with no chrome too. I love the 1936 badges and the pinstripes and the low slung ancient look of the bike so much I even ignore the problems I've had with my bike.

I do use my reverse to get the bike out of my wheel chock and once to play a joke on some faux bikers that harangued me for parking nose in on a down hill parking space :)
 
I use the reverse each time I use the bike, to get out of the stand.
Getting out of the stand with my R1200C, without reverse, is a pain in the a..
Of course I could buy a stand with a lever allowing to enter and go out of it without any step.
I happen regularly to be happy to have reverse according to parking condition.
I personally won't buy any bike without reverse since I've tried it.
Ok I'm 66...
 
kratedisease said:
I surely do not know the conditions in Europe, but here in USA, the R18 is still very deeply discounted as of today.

The R18 is and will be a classic. It is sheer artwork. But I believe that most prospective people in the market for a cruiser in the USA are more attracted to the status of Harley Davidson in this cruiser segment. I do not ever see any Harleys discounted currently (except Livewire) and the used Harley market is super tight with used prices so much higher than a new R18 bike fully discounted.


Although I am happy I got mine super deep discounted ( $11,500 brand new first edition that had a $22K sticker) I feel that BMW did a huge mistake by producing so many then dumping them on the market and then having to discount them to allow dealers to move them. This was a marketing mistake IMO, but BMW might have had other reasons to do this, possibly to saturate the market in order to gain visibility amongst the public and other riders.


I believe with time the R18 will develop its own market of buyers, and the R18 will gain status over the years, and there will be true riders
( more sophisticated ) who appreciate the R18 unlike the "wanna be" fake outlaw (rebel) Harley type.

Full disclosure... I own a HD Fatboy, HD Rocker, and HD Vrod.
Click to expand...
My HD RoadGlide is a fine fine motorcycle. But the R18TC is a work of art. Reverse is handy.
 
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Some may reverse their decision though,I am happy I got the R18C w/back up power.

Actually,we bought it because of the reverse gear as part of a plan to have a Hannigan sidecar.
Funny,I wouldn't have bought it if it did not have this option.I would have really missed out on a great bike.
 
itnetpro said:
The couple of times I used it was more work then pushing back myself. Maybe i will use it more when I get into my 60s who knows.

I do agree on hill hold though! Love that and now I have adaptive cruise control I can’t live without it. if you never had it you wont miss it.

John
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I am just over 60, 5'8", a 30" inseam. I have had no problems yet even with a very slight uphill going backwards. I do recommend footwear with good traction. Because the mass of the bike is quite large, any deviation from balance means a greater inertia one must overcome with a single leg. I am not really convinced about hill hold either, I have it on my car but on a motorbike I don't have any trouble with both feet on the ground when needed, hold the handbrake and ease the throttle grip while letting out the clutch. Each to their own. Safe riding folks!
 
nielsm said:
It seems to be regional. I live in the northeast US & have seen a number of R18s. 15% of the bikes at a local Bikes & Breakfast event last month were R18s.

But, I’ve never seen a Harley Pan America in the wild until last week. Ironically it was when I was in a taxi from Heathrow to London on the A4.
Click to expand...
They only sols a couple thousand Pan Americas... but gawd that bike is an absolute home run. I do not miss the GS in any way shape or form.
 
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