0x0000000e76
Member
Thanks. But sure about the tq spec on the oil filter? Either it isn't right or my torque tool is worth a crap. Because I tighten the oil filter per the spec on this sheet and it was sipping oil. And no, no double gasket.
Is there a BMW shop manual out for our bikes yet? Or, an electronic version?
- Thread starter Keehn
- Start date
0x0000000e76
Member
It's like a bot wrote it/responded.I got a response from BMW Motorrad USA. As a surprise to, exactly no one, here's what they said:
"Dear Michael,
Thanks for writing to BMW Motorrad USA regarding service manuals. I appreciate your loyalty with us; although, I’m sorry to learn of your disappointment.
BMW Motorrad no longer provides service manuals. Please note, BMW is fully committed to providing our customers with the ultimate experience. An integral part of this process involves incorporating feedback from our valued customers, and I have already shared your thoughts internally. You can be assured that your sentiments will be heard.
Should you need to contact BMW Motorrad Customer Relations and Services again, you can reach us at 1-800-831-1117 Monday through Thursday from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. ET and Friday from 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. ET.
Thanks for sharing your valued feedback with us, Michael.
Kind regards,
Abigail
BMW Motorrad USA
Representative
MAKE LIFE A RIDE.
FEEL EVERYTHING, FEAR NOTHING.
Build your own bike at www.bmwmotorcycles.com."
So, I got the standard boilerplate response.
Now, I need to figure out how to contact the big boys and girls over in Berlin/Munich to press the issue. This is FAR from over...
Mike
0x0000000e76
Member
^There are a couple of vids on the Tube that I found. However, there's the one dude with a braided beard who, because they feel "we should look it up", will not post the torque specs. The other one is Adam Chandler and he posts the specs at the end. I am not sure about the oil filter tq figures, though. I did that and it leaked oil.
buellwinkle
Active member
Shit no other way to evaluate their reply, this will be my last BMW PERIOD, here that Motoradd !! !I got a response from BMW Motorrad USA. As a surprise to, exactly no one, here's what they said:
"Dear Michael,
Thanks for writing to BMW Motorrad USA regarding service manuals. I appreciate your loyalty with us; although, I’m sorry to learn of your disappointment.
BMW Motorrad no longer provides service manuals. Please note, BMW is fully committed to providing our customers with the ultimate experience. An integral part of this process involves incorporating feedback from our valued customers, and I have already shared your thoughts internally. You can be assured that your sentiments will be heard.
Should you need to contact BMW Motorrad Customer Relations and Services again, you can reach us at 1-800-831-1117 Monday through Thursday from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. ET and Friday from 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. ET.
Thanks for sharing your valued feedback with us, Michael.
Kind regards,
Abigail
BMW Motorrad USA
Representative
MAKE LIFE A RIDE.
FEEL EVERYTHING, FEAR NOTHING.
Build your own bike at www.bmwmotorcycles.com."
So, I got the standard boilerplate response
Now, I need to figure out how to contact the big boys and girls over in Berlin/Munich to press the issue. This is FAR from over...
Mike
Gr8adv
Well-known member
ALL of Germany is shaking in their boots. Lol.
Bwana
Active member
They will if they piss off enough people and the US recession deepens.
I recognize your post is meant to be humorous but BMW will come to realize they are causing self-inflicted harm to their brand by this simple decision to discontinue DVD service manuals. Hubris is one thing, but when hubris begins to impact the bottom-line, that's when the higher-ups start asking questions.
BMW wants the R18 line to be successful. Good! I want it to as well, just as much as I wish the r1200c line was before it. But BMW also needs to realize that there's a good many American cruiser owners who DON'T get their bikes serviced at dealers or shops; They do the work themselves. There's an old Harley joke that spring/summer/fall's for riding and winter's for fixing and rebuilding.
I've observed that BMW employs a LOT of PhD's. I don't pretend to understand German culture, but on the flip-side, they seem to think they have come to understand OUR culture, regarding American cruisers. PhD's are academics (e.g. "book-smart") but based on their decisions, like the recent decision to charge monthly fee for heated seats in its bimmers, BMW is increasingly losing touch with its customers in favor of squeezing out every last penny. And, like Bwana is eluding to, with the upcoming recession (it IS coming, IMO after November midterms), people will be pinching pennies and watching YT on how to do their own maintenance.
As for me, once my warranty expires, I have no inclination to scurry like a lemming back to the dealership if I get a CEL or something breaks. I'll just...figure it out without a service manual
.Mike
P.S. Also, my profile pic is "Lady Dimitrescu" from the "Resident Evil Village" video game. Since my R18TC has big cans sticking out either side, and the good lady is...shapely, the name seems to fit nicely
buellwinkle
Active member
My Sentiments Exactly ! ! !!I recognize your post is meant to be humorous but BMW will come to realize they are causing self-inflicted harm to their brand by this simple decision to discontinue DVD service manuals. Hubris is one thing, but when hubris begins to impact the bottom-line, that's when the higher-ups start asking questions.
BMW wants the R18 line to be successful. Good! I want it to as well, just as much as I wish the r1200c line was before it. But BMW also needs to realize that there's a good many American cruiser owners who DON'T get their bikes serviced at dealers or shops; They do the work themselves. There's an old Harley joke that spring/summer/fall's for riding and winter's for fixing and rebuilding.
I've observed that BMW employs a LOT of PhD's. I don't pretend to understand German culture, but on the flip-side, they seem to think they have come to understand OUR culture, regarding American cruisers. PhD's are academics (e.g. "book-smart") but based on their decisions, like the recent decision to charge monthly fee for heated seats in its bimmers, BMW is increasingly losing touch with its customers in favor of squeezing out every last penny. And, like Bwana is eluding to, with the upcoming recession (it IS coming, IMO after November midterms), people will be pinching pennies and watching YT on how to do their own maintenance.
As for me, once my warranty expires, I have no inclination to scurry like a lemming back to the dealership if I get a CEL or something breaks. I'll just...figure it out without a service manual
Mike
P.S. Also, my profile pic is "Lady Dimitrescu" from the "Resident Evil Village" video game. Since my R18TC has big cans sticking out either side, and the good lady is...shapely, the name seems to fit nicely
LCRC18B
Active member
I don't understand branding a bike as "make it your own" and then trying not to let anyone work on it. Motorcycle culture in general has a DIY mentality. Imagine dirt bike manufacturers trying to make you go into a dealership to change an air filter or adjust the chain; it would be a joke. Those people (including me) bring at least a small tool kit with them every time they go to the track or trail.
There are plenty of people that will use the shops anyway and plenty of jobs that are better left to the dealerships; they don't need to force people to use their services. If you're running a good business, then you're providing value, and people will want to buy from you. I get what they are doing and why, but I think it's short sided for the brand. In the past, BMWs bikes have always been known for being reliable and easy to maintain. Look at the MOA.
When you think of a BMW bike you think 100K miles, at least. That's what makes them so cool; they're transportation not just a toy. If you take it in every 6,000 miles, you'll exceed the price of the bike before you get to six figures on the clock, just in service fees, not in hard parts or gas and oil.
I'll buy a $20K-30K bike (and then another), but not if it's a money pit after the sale. BMW should be happy with "part of something" rather than all of nothing. Unfortunately, it seems to be the new model for lots of businesses; the Point of Sale is just the beginning. Maybe my next bike is going to be another Yamaha.
There are plenty of people that will use the shops anyway and plenty of jobs that are better left to the dealerships; they don't need to force people to use their services. If you're running a good business, then you're providing value, and people will want to buy from you. I get what they are doing and why, but I think it's short sided for the brand. In the past, BMWs bikes have always been known for being reliable and easy to maintain. Look at the MOA.
When you think of a BMW bike you think 100K miles, at least. That's what makes them so cool; they're transportation not just a toy. If you take it in every 6,000 miles, you'll exceed the price of the bike before you get to six figures on the clock, just in service fees, not in hard parts or gas and oil.
I'll buy a $20K-30K bike (and then another), but not if it's a money pit after the sale. BMW should be happy with "part of something" rather than all of nothing. Unfortunately, it seems to be the new model for lots of businesses; the Point of Sale is just the beginning. Maybe my next bike is going to be another Yamaha.
motoring
Active member
Is it even legal for them not to make this information available? I thought there was right to repair legislation that was passed. Hum, guess that right is still be worked out.
www.regulatoryoversight.com
For certain, not allowing an owner access to information specs to do basis valve adjustments and such is screwed up to say it politely
FTC Makes Good on Its Promise to Ramp up Right-to-Repair Enforcement
This article was originally published in Westlaw Today and is republished here with permission. As detailed in our articles earlier this year, the "right
www.regulatoryoversight.com
For certain, not allowing an owner access to information specs to do basis valve adjustments and such is screwed up to say it politely
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I wonder if enough R18 owners complained to the Federal Trade Commission that holding back basic maintenance and repair information violates the terms of “the right to repair” executive order it might get the attention of BMW?
motoring
Active member
Sounds good to me...
This week Representative Buddy Carter (R-GA) announced he will form a congressional caucus to consider access to vehicle data, saying that it would likely lead to the introduction of federal legislation. The American Alliance for Vehicle Owners’ Rights, made up of consumer advocates, auto repairers, insurance groups, and others, lauded the announcement.
BOQ R 18 B
New member
It goes further than doing your own maintenance. I bought the engine guards and leg rests from my my local BMW dealer. The parts parts were delivered about a month a part - engine guards first. The parts do not come with an installation manual, but the service guy was kind enough to print them out for me when I asked.
I forgot to ask when I picked up the leg rests, so when I got home I called the service desk and they told me they couldn’t do it for me, “blah, blah, blah, BMW service manual”.
I said “I’ve read plenty on the forums about BMW trying to prevent their customers from tinkering on their own bikes, and yes you can send me the instructions because the last time I was there, the counter guy did it for me. All I need are the torque specs.” He did tell me, but only after I badgered him.
I think it’s only a matter of time before an unauthorized PDF version gets leaked. There must be more than one sympathetic service tech out there that understands the frustration for at-home mechanics/tinkerers. I’m sure BMW will try to take down every copy they can find - but once it’s out there, it will be out there for good.
I forgot to ask when I picked up the leg rests, so when I got home I called the service desk and they told me they couldn’t do it for me, “blah, blah, blah, BMW service manual”.
I said “I’ve read plenty on the forums about BMW trying to prevent their customers from tinkering on their own bikes, and yes you can send me the instructions because the last time I was there, the counter guy did it for me. All I need are the torque specs.” He did tell me, but only after I badgered him.
I think it’s only a matter of time before an unauthorized PDF version gets leaked. There must be more than one sympathetic service tech out there that understands the frustration for at-home mechanics/tinkerers. I’m sure BMW will try to take down every copy they can find - but once it’s out there, it will be out there for good.
I agree. When you think this model is being sold all around the world it seems inconceivable to me that someone doesn’t put something out, even if they reverse engineer one. Fred Harmon has created a nice little empire for himself on Goldwing maintenance. I don’t think most people would expect a service manual or DVD tutorial for free.
All the accessories install instructions are available on the BMW site.
Ulrich
Well-known member
I second that !!!
Accessory installs are fine, but we want proper shop manuals. Owners like myself will never send our bikes into the dealer unless there was a critical software update. Everything else we do ourselves.
I’m hoping that Eastern Europe can come through for us on a pirated service manual. But, I’d ALSO be more than happy to PAY for an official service manual from BMW if they’d offer it…I’d be first in line if BMW NA offered it!
IDGAF who comes through for our community first. I repeat, I will NOT go to a dealer for service work!!! Sorry, not sorry! I’ll just muck through it and interpret through prior oil head manuals for general guidance.
Mike