Alf
Active member
Hi JMac74, your leak looks very similar to the one on my machine! May I please ask if you could report back on here what Bmw say. My dealer cant investigate my R18 for another month
Poll about Final Drive (Bevel Gear) Oil Spillage on the rim and tyre
- Thread starter Didi
- Start date
JMac74
New member
Didi
Member
Hello everybody,
now I can shed some light on the issue because my R18 just came back from the official BMW repair centre in Germany.
The oil spillage as you see on the picture below was caused by a faulty rotary shaft seal (Wellendichtring). When opened it was clear that there is a leakage. The seal was replaced under warranty and I am supposed to check now for the next couple of weeks if the problem is repeated.
The other shaft seal was dry - so it was in my case NOT the cause (other colleagues nevertheless had also that seal replaced as well - some even the whole bevel gear).
The diagnosis of the repair centre is that during the assembly process grease or silicon lubricate is used in the factory when they put the wheel into place and the splines (Ruckdämpfer) settle into their tight spaces. Since the splines enter only with difficulty lubrication (too much?) is used to ease the process.
That grease or lubrication reaches the outside; this might depend on temperature, if the bike was recently washed or in rain, etc. Drivers who wash their bikes more often might not see it that much.
Over time this problem should disappear (if the seal itself is not the cause).
The absolute no-go is that the grease/lubricate can reach the running surface of the wheel.
Conclusion is two-fold:
- BMW has a problem with faulty seals in general
- BMW uses (too much) grease/lubricant when mounting the tyres
now I can shed some light on the issue because my R18 just came back from the official BMW repair centre in Germany.
The oil spillage as you see on the picture below was caused by a faulty rotary shaft seal (Wellendichtring). When opened it was clear that there is a leakage. The seal was replaced under warranty and I am supposed to check now for the next couple of weeks if the problem is repeated.
The other shaft seal was dry - so it was in my case NOT the cause (other colleagues nevertheless had also that seal replaced as well - some even the whole bevel gear).
The diagnosis of the repair centre is that during the assembly process grease or silicon lubricate is used in the factory when they put the wheel into place and the splines (Ruckdämpfer) settle into their tight spaces. Since the splines enter only with difficulty lubrication (too much?) is used to ease the process.
That grease or lubrication reaches the outside; this might depend on temperature, if the bike was recently washed or in rain, etc. Drivers who wash their bikes more often might not see it that much.
Over time this problem should disappear (if the seal itself is not the cause).
The absolute no-go is that the grease/lubricate can reach the running surface of the wheel.
Conclusion is two-fold:
- BMW has a problem with faulty seals in general
- BMW uses (too much) grease/lubricant when mounting the tyres
Alf
Active member
Many thanks Didi for updating your results, my personal issue is not a leak from the final drive input, but the final drive output area.
Your information is very welcome.
Your information is very welcome.
JMac74
New member
Hi @Alf Bike came back from BMW yesterday. They cleaned the area and rode it to monitor for further leaking. They apparently observed no further leaks and asked me to monitor especially around the final shaft and, if it returns to come back. LOL. So alas I have nothing further to add at this stage. I would like to think that this was a one off, maybe due to excess oil, but have my suspicions that there is a faulty seal and will need to revisit. I'll report back if the issue persists and advise the outcome. Let me know how you go mate.Hi JMac74, your leak looks very similar to the one on my machine! May I please ask if you could report back on here what Bmw say. My dealer cant investigate my R18 for another month
Alf
Active member
Many thanks JMac74 for reporting back your experience and results. I have no doubt I will be told the very same thing when mine goes in next month. I have to wipe off the weep from the final drive, wheel and tyre x 3 times now, it only appears to happen on my machine after I have done over 100mls no stop on a hot day! The dealer’s already stated they suspect residue from the Cush drive…when I mentioned my concern at the contamination reaching the tyre and the fact it could be a safety issue, I could see them back peddling. To that end the dealership have now said they would like to collect my R18…
All I want is to be told by the professionals that all is well and I’m panicking about nothing. Then when its out of warranty I can produce the paperwork from Bmw stating it wasn't leaking when it spits its dummy out and I end up sliding down the road!
Will report back once it’s been in.
All I want is to be told by the professionals that all is well and I’m panicking about nothing. Then when its out of warranty I can produce the paperwork from Bmw stating it wasn't leaking when it spits its dummy out and I end up sliding down the road!
Will report back once it’s been in.
This was a hot topic of discussion on the Honda Pan European forum. I’ve had a few ST1100’s over the years. When it came to rear wheel removal and replacement there was very specific guidance about dealing with the rear splines (gathered over years of use and hundreds of thousands of miles mainly in North America).
For a start the splines had tiny internal and external ’O’ rings that were very hard to see, very easy to tear and on used bikes often found to be missing altogether. Hence owners reporting leaks and weeping (similar to the pictures on the R18).
On top of that a small amount (literally a smear) of specific molebdimum paste (very expensive like £50 for a small 5g tube) was recommended (not grease) due to the very high pressures exerted on the splines and product creep as the wheel rotated. I anticipate this is what’s happening here and as the miles rack up and experience is gained this will be resolved.
I wonder if/when folks are having rear tyres changed the spline seals are being disturbed or damaged in the process? Sage advice on the ST1100 forum was change the rear tyre change the seals (they were only like a fiver £5).
For a start the splines had tiny internal and external ’O’ rings that were very hard to see, very easy to tear and on used bikes often found to be missing altogether. Hence owners reporting leaks and weeping (similar to the pictures on the R18).
On top of that a small amount (literally a smear) of specific molebdimum paste (very expensive like £50 for a small 5g tube) was recommended (not grease) due to the very high pressures exerted on the splines and product creep as the wheel rotated. I anticipate this is what’s happening here and as the miles rack up and experience is gained this will be resolved.
I wonder if/when folks are having rear tyres changed the spline seals are being disturbed or damaged in the process? Sage advice on the ST1100 forum was change the rear tyre change the seals (they were only like a fiver £5).
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Alf
Active member
Could well be that Rufus, all the previous Bm’s I have owned the rear wheel fitment was never complicated or difficult to carry out. But I would imagine the R18 is a different kettle of fish!
The dealer recently had my rear wheel off to carry out a puncture repair, and the leaks only been happening since this intervention. I will ask when the dealer picks up the bike next month for investigatio.
The dealer recently had my rear wheel off to carry out a puncture repair, and the leaks only been happening since this intervention. I will ask when the dealer picks up the bike next month for investigatio.
Alf
Active member
Just received my R18 back from the stealer post investigation into a final drive “leak”..
It appears it isn’t an oil leak but residue from the rear wheel Cush drive! I have requested pictures of the rear seal and there is no leaks evident.
The dealer told me its a common issue on the R18 and that I just need to wipe the residue away after every ride…
It appears it isn’t an oil leak but residue from the rear wheel Cush drive! I have requested pictures of the rear seal and there is no leaks evident.
The dealer told me its a common issue on the R18 and that I just need to wipe the residue away after every ride…
"Glad" that was the cause and easily sorted. It reminds me of numerous worries of leaks on new Triumphs in the early 2000s that were actually cosmoline residue dripping from various nooks and crannies after the protectant was (mostly) cleaned off for prep, but wind and engine vibration when first ridden caused similar results as your F.D. residue.
Alf
Active member
Many thanks BobW, will let you know how it pans out.
Alf this is fanciful from your dealer. According to the photo you posted of your bike the deposits are coming from the gap between the bevel housing and the drive plate. For it to be "deposits" from the cush drive it would have to come from between the drive plate and wheel hub. Whilst the drive plate houses the cush rubbers the only pathway to the outside would be between the wheel hub and drive plate. The "rivulets", of something with liquid like properties, are being formed as a result of centrifugal forces which will either flick material off onto your wheel rim and tyre or take a pathway to ever greater diameter on the drive plate - lateral rivulets.
The material is either grease from the drive spline or transmission oil from the bevel housing. If its is grease and behaving like a liquid then it must have reached its melting point and it is no longer where it should be so potentially not doing its job - manufacturing defect, wrong kind of grease. If it is excess grease applied during manufacture then this is also a defect if it ends up on your back wheel. BMW should be inspecting all these bikes as a matter of course.
I have been waiting 6 weeks for BMW Motorrad UK (Tristan Stone and Steve Bellars tech reps) to give the go ahead my dealership to inspect and investigate under warrranty. Three dealerships in the UK have told me they have never come across this issue, and are rather dismissive of BMW owner views on forums. Didi on this fourm has reported it to BMW Motorrad DE, yet it is not on the digital system operated by BMW. Why? When it is a safety issue, and there are technicians at BMW dealerships who dont have the competence to interpret the evidence.
As you may have guessed I am pretty hacked off about it.
Alf
Active member
Hi rem47, I hear what you are saying. To be perfectly honest I have lost confidence in Bmw Motorrad!
Having owned Bmw Motorcycles since 1983 I can confirm the customer support/back up from Bmw now is disappointing.
After having several rather big issues with my ex demonstrator R18 I have finally decided to put it up for sale and move it on. It is a shame because I like riding the R18 and the way it looks but I have no confidence in the build quality or Bm’s support.
It is what it is and I have to accept I will lose a small fortune letting it go………
Having owned Bmw Motorcycles since 1983 I can confirm the customer support/back up from Bmw now is disappointing.
After having several rather big issues with my ex demonstrator R18 I have finally decided to put it up for sale and move it on. It is a shame because I like riding the R18 and the way it looks but I have no confidence in the build quality or Bm’s support.
It is what it is and I have to accept I will lose a small fortune letting it go………
kate_brett
Active member
The first signs of leakage. Dealer ( Team Moto VIC. ) has inspected and forwarding report to BMW Australia. Told to keep an eye on it. Let’s see what eventuates.
Yup I just noticed mine is doing this. 
Almost certainly grease. Was this event associated with hard riding and high air temperature? It happened to me on two occassions, the first coincided with air temp about 30 deg C. Eventually BMW took a look.
First photo is the back of the bevel drive housing, its clean. If there was an oil leak from the seal you would expect oil/drips on this face (it is static). This face can be inspected without removing the drive plate, just remove the wheel and take out the cush drive rubbers - they have spigots that fit into holes in the drive plate which allows inspection of this face with a torch.
If you wipe the deposits off onto your finger and smell it, if it was transmission oil it would smell sulphurous.
BMW did not want to go further than this as they said there was no oil leak, but I pursuaded them to remove the drive plate which is a significant job to remove and replace.
The second photo shows the inside of the drive plate. With the characteristic streaks only on this inside face. Apparently fitting the drive plate requires lots of heat and grease to fit onto the splined shaft. So when the drive plate eventually goes on it will push the grease to the back, where given the right conditions it will fling off onto your rim, tyre, and you may find it on the back of your number plate. Where it cools and has the consistency of grease again.
First photo is the back of the bevel drive housing, its clean. If there was an oil leak from the seal you would expect oil/drips on this face (it is static). This face can be inspected without removing the drive plate, just remove the wheel and take out the cush drive rubbers - they have spigots that fit into holes in the drive plate which allows inspection of this face with a torch.
If you wipe the deposits off onto your finger and smell it, if it was transmission oil it would smell sulphurous.
BMW did not want to go further than this as they said there was no oil leak, but I pursuaded them to remove the drive plate which is a significant job to remove and replace.
The second photo shows the inside of the drive plate. With the characteristic streaks only on this inside face. Apparently fitting the drive plate requires lots of heat and grease to fit onto the splined shaft. So when the drive plate eventually goes on it will push the grease to the back, where given the right conditions it will fling off onto your rim, tyre, and you may find it on the back of your number plate. Where it cools and has the consistency of grease again.
Great post. Sounds like you‘ve nailed this phenomenon, basically nowt to worry about. It’s assembly grease/paste. Same as the Honda ST1100 issue from years ago that once understood went away.
Thank you for taking the time explaining this in detail.
Your pictures definitely help put me at ease a bit - been tossing and turning all night over this, I’ve barely had this bike for a year. It’s still under warranty and I’d wish to have this resolved- the shop rates are outrageous up here in Canada.
How much of a hassle is it to rebuild these final drives. How can I get my hands on the torque setting’s and such if I had to re build this myself after the warranty is up next year.
Alf
Active member
Bmw Motorrad had agreed to extend my warranty from 2-3 years because of the issues I had experienced with my R18 FE. It was a nice gesture but I still had serious concerns with the bike…..not an issue now, I have bitten the bullet and moved it on.
RDavidson
New member
I had this happen on mine. Rode 1100 miles in 24 hours and usually doing 90mph. The dealer checked and said it was fine. I didn't trust them so I bought everything I needed and changed the final drive fluid. I also measured it as it came out. It was exactly where it was supposed to be and has not done it again. I am wondering if it doesn't have a vent. Over 90 the final drive gets pretty warm and things start to expand. It has happened on other makes and models and was always fixed with addition of a vent.