ALMOST was a DIY on installing battery trickle charger, but stopped when realized bike might not like direct trickle charging (photos in thread)

[motoring]

Ok…what battery is in my 2021 r18fe bike? Is it Mode 1 (lead acid/lead gelAGM/lead calcium or Mode 2 Lithium-ion?
The new bmw Charger I got manual says to pick one when going through menu on the charger?

Hum, seems my battery charger has a mind of its own, and all the sudden it simply started to charge. Am I too then understand that this charger automatically knows what type of battery it’s connected to?

thank you

 

[Pyalong]

Ok…what battery is in my 2021 r18fe bike? Is it Mode 1 (lead acid/lead gelAGM/lead calcium or Mode 2 Lithium-ion?
The new bmw Charger I got manual says to pick one when going through menu on the charger?

Hum, seems my battery charger has a mind of its own, and all the sudden it simply started to charge. Am I too then understand that this charger automatically knows what type of battery it’s connected to?
View attachment 7367
thank you

 

[Pyalong]

I just received my BM Charger and it did the same.....just started charging and no options provided.....buy I'm sure all is good as it is a "Smart Charger"

 

[Pyalong]

From what I can see the optimate 4 canbus version does a great job.

The main difference that is obvious between this & the BMW unit, is that the BMW charger spells it out in words & %s as to what it is doing in the charge cycle. The optimate has colour coded lights.

Also, I would say that the BMW charger has been made to be wall mounted, wheras the optimate kindof seems to be a trailing unit left on the floor.

I'd like to think the BMW charger is doing something more clever, but not sure it is!

I Have both of these chargers and I do prefer the BM simply due to the fact that I had to
read the instructions to decipher the colour coded lights on the Optimate....
But both work Great.....

 

[Deleted member 1618]

I received the same charger with the purchase of my 2022 Model-B; out of the box the unit defaults to an AGM or Mode-1, which is the battery type that my bike was equipped with when purchased.

Batteries are nothing more than energy storage devices, which involves chemistry; Lithium (Li) type batteries require a BMS (Battery Managing System), which helps to prevent the battery from going catastrophic during a cell failure. Without a BMS; it's pretty typical to see fires as a result due to counterfeit batteries being used within scooters and such, which do not have a proper BMS in place.

Li type batteries are light weight, have an improved discharge - charging cycle, which extends the overall life of the battery by more than twice of a typical AGM battery (10 to 15 yrs.); they cost about 3x more than a typical AGM and aren't great temperature wise if mounted in an outside environment. I can't see any real benefit for a gas powered bike to go Li at this stage of the game.

 

[Deleted member 1344]

I was quite surprised when I lifted the Li battery that was on display at the local Harley dealership. It seemed about 1/4 the weight of the standard one. Was told it didn’t like cold temps.

 

[Keehn]

Our batteries are the lead-acid type. Be careful and make sure you choose the lead-acid option on the charger, as the charging cycle is different between the two types of batteries.

For example, Li-ion can accept full-voltage all the way up to 100% but then it must stop receiving charge, otherwise damage can occur to the cells. A BMS (Battery Management System) is built into commercially available Lithium batteries that can bleed off excess voltage, but over time, this will damage the BMS.

Lead-acid OTOH prefers full-voltage to 100%, but then ALSO a trickle charge (usually around 1 amp) to keep the acid happy and electrons hopping about. So, when you select the Li-Ion option on your charger, once it hits 100%, it will NOT go 0.01 volt over the set voltage.

Think homeostasis - one water cup is fuller than the other, the li-ion charger (the full water cup) wants to make the empty water cup (the battery) equal with itself, so it will let out ONLY enough water so that the li-ion cup does not exceed the volume of the charger cup. Once both cups are at equal capacities (just work with me here, and pretend the charger isn't getting any more "water" from the power outlet), then the charger, while still charging, now considers the li-ion cup "full."

Here's a quick two-three minute read on the differences between lead-acid and li-ion chargers that even a drunk beemer rider in a pub can wrap their brain around https://www.choosesolar.com.au/can-you-charge-lithium-battery-with-lead-acid-charger/

Mike

 

[Keehn]

I was quite surprised when I lifted the Li battery that was on display at the local Harley dealership. It seemed about 1/4 the weight of the standard one. Was told it didn’t like cold temps.

That is correct. Li-ion doesn't like to be CHARGED at cold temps. You can store it just fine, but don't use it or charge it in cold weather.

In fact, if you look at Tesla batteries (for example), there are water jackets intertwined between hundreds of 18650 li-ion battery cells that serve to either heat up or cool down each cell to optimal temperatures. It's general knowledge that the best temperature to charge a lithium chemistry battery is around 70-75 degrees Fahrenheit. Also, to get the longest life out of your battery, it is also advised to charge only to 90% of your total charge capacity. However, unless you know how to modify the software of the BMS on the battery, this would be a pointless endeavor to pursue, as the alternator alone would make any garage charger efforts moot.

Also, if you ever choose to pursue lithium chemistry batteries yourself, look for lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries. These have all the benefits of lithium-ion batteries...minus the KABLOOEY part! LiFePO4 are slightly less power-dense, but the not-blowing-up-on-you part makes them a far better contender for long-term use as a motorcycle battery, especially for those who have batteries installed UNDER their gas tanks (like my 2004 r1150rt!!!) I certainly don't need my battery melting down, only to cause my gas tank to go up in a shrapnel-filled firebomb of an explosion.

Mike

 

[Greg_H]

Let's see if I can get a simple answer to a simple question.

If I purchase an Optimate 4, remove it from the packaging, plug one end into the A/C, plug the other end into the R18 socket, and that's it. No buttons to push or programming. The Optimate 4 will figure it out for itself. When I want to ride, I unplug the Optimate from the R18 docket and ride.

Is the aforementioned accurate?

 

[Deleted member 1618]

Let's see if I can get a simple answer to a simple question.

If I purchase an Optimate 4, remove it from the packaging, plug one end into the A/C, plug the other end into the R18 socket, and that's it. No buttons to push or programming. The Optimate 4 will figure it out for itself. When I want to ride, I unplug the Optimate from the R18 docket and ride.

Is the aforementioned accurate?

50% chance it works out of the box; there is the standard lead acid AGM chemistry and there is Li type energy storage devices... For me, the BMW defaults to AGM out of the box..

 

[Greg_H]

50% chance it works out of the box; there is the standard lead acid AGM chemistry and there is Li type energy storage devices... For me, the BMW defaults to AGM out of the box..

Good to know. But if it's the other 50%, I'm screwed. A few years back, I contemplated the Optimate for an '06 K1200R. The Optimate's instructions and panel looked liked they were created by Dr. Richard Feynman. I'm not a physicist. Nor do I speak Klingon.

 

[Deleted member 1618]

Good to know. But if it's the other 50%, I'm screwed. A few years back, I contemplated the Optimate for an '06 K1200R. The Optimate's instructions and panel looked liked they were created by Dr. Richard Feynman. I'm not a physicist. Nor do I speak Klingon.

Like most bike owners, you probably have less than a 0.1% chance of owning a bike equipped with a Li starter battery; so your odds are exponentially improved. I'm not sure why the newer BMW trickle charger offers the two modes (AGM/Lead ACID & Li); I'm guessing at some point bike manufactures will start offering Li, if they haven't already started. The higher end Li batteries typically have a physical CAT-6 or BlueTooth interface, which communicates back to the rectifier as part of the battery's BMS (Battery Management System); now I'm curious if the BMW charger has an embedded BlueTooth chip set.

I don't see the benefit of moving to the Li chemistry at this point for a motorcycle; if we were on an RV forum, then I'd be 100% behind a Li battery system for the house battery string within an RV platform.

 

[Keehn]

Like most bike owners, you probably have less than a 0.1% chance of owning a bike equipped with a Li starter battery; so your odds are exponentially improved. I'm not sure why the newer BMW trickle charger offers the two modes (AGM/Lead ACID & Li); I'm guessing at some point bike manufactures will start offering Li, if they haven't already started. The higher end Li batteries typically have a physical CAT-6 or BlueTooth interface, which communicates back to the rectifier as part of the battery's BMS (Battery Management System); now I'm curious if the BMW charger has an embedded BlueTooth chip set.

I don't see the benefit of moving to the Li chemistry at this point for a motorcycle; if we were on an RV forum, then I'd be 100% behind a Li battery system for the house battery string within an RV platform.

I do happen to own a couple RV's, hence my affinity for the LiFePO4 batteries .

Properly maintained, LiFePO4 batteries last FAR longer than lead-acid and even AGM, which, in a motorcycle application where your battery is hard to reach, just might be incentive enough to take the plunge. But, everyone's different and some (like yourself) don't see the benefits, which is fine - I'm not here to arm wrestle anyone on why they need to switch out. I write this and my prior posts merely for any passers-by who fancy a curiosity on the subject.

For me, I don't think most commercial LiFePO4 motorcycle batteries are worth it unless they have a sufficient AH rating for the physical size battery package they are occupying (e.g. is the manufacturer filling the entire battery package with battery cells, or rather with foam or other filler?) I'd want to pull out my calculator and spend a couple minutes doing "Klingon" to calculate the mAh of a single 18650 LiFePO4 cell and then physically calculate how many of those cells can reasonably fit (with a BMS circuit board and terminal lugs) inside of a battery box. Some manufacturers will sell LiFePO4 batteries physically smaller than the battery they replace, which then you, the owner, have to use cardboard or other means to make your own filler to occupy the empty space just so the battery tie-downs still work. I REALLY don't like these, because they are gimmicky, but also because every time you start the bike, each cell is stressed all that much more, because there's less cells overall than there could have been otherwise, had the battery been physically sized to the original, and the extra cells added to the overall series.

That's why I don't even bother with commercial LiFePO4 batteries; I just make my own (unless I get great eBay discounts, that is). That way I control my own QA.

Mike

 

[AV8OR]

I bought the Optimate 4 with the CANbus connector. Out of the box it took me a couple of goes to figure out if it was in the CANbus mode. There are confusing (to me anyway) paper instructions, but I found an excellent online video clip. The Optimate 4 is the bee’s knees. It is less than half the price of the BMW charger.
I have my machine winter stored in my garage. I leave the bike alarm off. I plug the Optimate in on the first of the month and unplug it once I get two green light which takes fewer than 2 days. I then unplug until next month. Works perfectly and is economical.

 

[Deleted member 1618]

I bought the Optimate 4 with the CANbus connector. Out of the box it took me a couple of goes to figure out if it was in the CANbus mode. There are confusing (to me anyway) paper instructions, but I found an excellent online video clip. The Optimate 4 is the bee’s knees. It is less than half the price of the BMW charger.
I have my machine winter stored in my garage. I leave the bike alarm off. I plug the Optimate in on the first of the month and unplug it once I get two green light which takes fewer than 2 days. I then unplug until next month. Works perfectly and is economical.

Why not leave the trickle charger plugged in throughout the entire Winter storage period?

I have the BMW charger, which I negotiated to be included at the time of purchase of my R 18 B; it appears to immediately start the charging process once I plug it in at the end of a ride, then it goes into a standby mode in order to maintain the float voltage. Basically, I don't do anything except plug it into the bike and unplug it before riding; it seems like it has more intelligence than my older OEM battery charger.

 

[kate_brett]

I just leave my Optimate plugged in all the time when bike not used. Reverse works every time.

 

[Deleted member 1618]

I just leave my Optimate plugged in all the time when bike not used. Reverse works every time.

Agreed... I think the newer battery chargers are more intelligent

 

[Rufus]

I just leave my Optimate plugged in all the time when bike not used. Reverse works every time.

Yep me too. Leave my Optimate4 plugged in all the time, it costs next to nothing to run, pennies. I fired my R18 up yesterday after about 4 weeks, went first time, didn’t even churn over, no messing.

 

[fastring]

Fyi the dealer had a generic trickle charger plugged in at jump start location vs canbus friendly. I removed that pigtail and added my standar SAE one and plugged it in. No issues just worked like any noncanbus bike.